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Thread: Scarcity of Deer ???

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikePal View Post
    Open discussion;...what is the difference to the deer population if I have one tag and I fill it in Oct or I fill it in Dec...???
    My point exactly. Why restrict when I shoot my 1 and only deer? Not sure how that makes any sense whether its gun or bow... 1 deer=1 deer no matter how it dies.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellerivercrossbowhunter View Post
    coyotes have there place but too many is bad news.

    The deer population in 92 is in great shape.
    If any cuts need to take place they would be best done to the gun hunt. Leave the archery season alone...
    How do you figure a non native species has a place
    I'd rather have an extra tag or 2 over feeding a hungry coyote family

    Dan

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Species8472 View Post
    What we need is the MNR to spend some money on good science to get a handle on what and where the numbers actually are. Then based on the sound science make sound management decisions to best manage the population for whatever the goals may be.
    This is what should be happening for all game species. Its not going to happen, but it should.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikePal View Post
    Open discussion;...most of us have 1 tag...what's the difference to the deer population if I fill it in Oct or I fill it in Dec...???
    I wonder how these guys would do back in the days of only cutting a few tracks in a week let alone only shooting 2 deer in a season.

    I think people are way out to lunch, they blame the other guy for everything.

    No pushed in a controlled hunt, then do we ban pushes for acrhery? No party hunting of any kind? What about crossbows, they are too easy to use, we should go back to traditional archery only but then we would have too many wounded deer, so 50 cal rifles only for deer.

    It makes me shake my head every time.

    We have very good deer populations in SW Ontario, Central and Eastern Ontario were too high for the carrying capacity for a long time and people started to shoot them as pests, hence why there were 5 extra tags in Eastern Ontario. The fact that the MNR is a couple years behind in adjusting the antlerless tag allocation makes more of a difference then 1 guy shooting 1 deer with 1 firearm (bow included).

    If you want the population to "come back" stop shooting does and stop shooting more than 1, if you use a rifle, shotgun, bow, whatever.

    If 18 guys go out for 1 week and shoot 18 deer you still have less pressure in the woods and less animals killed then if you have 10 bow hunters hunting all season and shooting 2 deer each.

  6. #25
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    It is unfortunate but these discussions always seem to end up following the same path. Populations and opportunities drop and everyone would like to see something done as long as it does not impact their hunt. I don't agree with everything the MNR does but trying to make us all happy while dealing with funding cuts etc must be extremely exasperating. There really are no easy answers.

  7. #26
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    With the amount of snow we already have and the amount predicted, every deer hunter should be out there this winter to get a few coyotes. Otherwise our deer population will be affected. (I can speak for WMU65)

    We were out there Coyote hunting on Dec 26th and will be every weekend until March.

    Its a bit far fetched, but if the MNR would grant an extra deer tag to every hunter who brings in 10 Yotes, predator control might be more effective.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Species8472 View Post
    What we need is the MNR to spend some money on good science to get a handle on what and where the numbers actually are. Then based on the sound science make sound management decisions to best manage the population for whatever the goals may be. If that means cuts to whoever and wherever so be it. Most of the observations we as hunters make in the field, while valuable, are anecdotal for the most part. For example in 82a this year I saw more fawns, does and bucks than I have ever seen. Other guys a few concessions away didn't see squat - so who's opinion is valid? Who knows - we need a bunch of field experienced biologists on the ground and in the air to get a proper handle on things. Otherwise we are just guessing.
    I agree. Right now decisions are made using second hand info. The MNR need to get their boots dirty.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." Ernest Benn

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by myot View Post
    How do you figure a non native species has a place
    I'd rather have an extra tag or 2 over feeding a hungry coyote family

    Dan
    Actually Coyotes are not 100% non-native...
    What is the difference between a wolf and a coyote in Ontario?

    Prior to the settlement of Ontario by Europeans, Ontario was home to grey wolves in the north, and eastern wolves in the south. However, eastern wolves struggled to survive heavy persecution and habitat loss associated with human settlement. Western coyotes, a species that fared much better in the disturbed landscape and consequently migrated eastward across Canada, bred with what remained of the eastern wolf population in southern Ontario and Quebec. Coyotes in eastern Canada are now called ‘eastern coyotes’ because they have a mixture of western coyote, wolf genes and even dog genes. This helps explain why eastern coyotes (a.k.a. “coywolves”,”brush wolves”, “Tweed wolves”) are larger than western coyotes, and why they are often confused with wolves.
    Eastern wolves and eastern coyotes are physically indistinguishable – you can’t tell them apart without a genetic test. To conserve eastern wolves in and around Algonquin Provincial Park, it was necessary to enforce a hunting and trapping ban for both eastern wolves and eastern coyotes. Adding to the confusion is the fact that eastern coyotes and eastern wolves sometimes interbreed, particularly in areas where eastern wolves are harvest (sadly, this happens across much of their range). Given what we know about the eastern wolf’s low odds of surviving outside of areas protected from hunting, trapping and vehicle traffic, the vast majority of canids in the southern parts of our province are eastern coyotes.
    Eastern coyotes are much better adapted to living in rural and urban areas, and there are even well-documented populations in Toronto and other heavily populated cities in southern Ontario. Typically, eastern coyotes consume a wide variety of food, including small mammals, insects, and berries. However, like wolves, coyotes depredate on livestock from time to time. Livestock depredation can be mitigated using a variety of non-invasive techniques. Finding the right combination of actions is case-specific – if you are a farmer, please click [COLOR=#885154]here for resources on coexisting with wolves and eastern coyotes. To learn more about eastern coyotes, please visit [COLOR=#885154]Coyote Watch Canada and [COLOR=#885154]Dr. Way’s Eastern Coyote Research.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Wheelerdude View Post
    Its a bit far fetched, but if the MNR would grant an extra deer tag to every hunter who brings in 10 Yotes, predator control might be more effective.
    It doesn't take much to get guys out Yote Hunting...for each confirmed kill, a local Gun shop offers a raffel/draw ticket on a new Rifle . Lots of guys enter and lots of yotes get killed. Everyones a winner !!
    Arte et marte (By Skill and by Fighting)...The RCEME motto

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by delmer View Post
    I agree. Right now decisions are made using second hand info. The MNR need to get their boots dirty.
    Ok...I've got one tag.. 34 yrs trad..if that's what you call it..archery under my belt. A crappy non ethical hunter is just that and equipment is not the issue a never was. Enough of that crap... then rifle guys nearby work just as hard as I do to fill a tag. I call shenanigans on 11 fawns...the numbers don't work out unless there is some crazy density going on there. Yah..yotes sure can be a pain in the rear end but winter ice and snow pack and starvation is far more of an issue for our herd. That's right our...archery xbow compound trad..rifle shotgun muzzleoader..... stop being divisive. Mnrf biggest error this past decade imho was multi tags...when we got hit with two crap winters right after the additional seals thing in eastern Ontario our deer count was way down.

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