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Thread: ON ISSUE #28 - 32-per-cent hike in minimum wage rates will cause many small businesses to close

  1. #101
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    I've had to make this point several times over.

    1. Personal wealth and liquidity has zero to do with a businesses viability. A business owner has an obligation to ensure that their business is viable, and turning a profit.

    2. Tim Horton's franchisees, were not allowed to increase prices by corporate. In order to maintain margins, the costs had to be recovered eleswhere.

    3. It's all fine and well for Cafe X, to send their employees a letter saying that they aren't "Minimal players" etc, however most of us know that a great many minimum wage earners are in that bracket because they were unmotivated to elevate themselves. ( not true in all cases I know, but there is a great majority that it is.)

    I don't see our Liberal government going after the Sikh warehouse owner in Brampton who laid off staff, and cut perks back to a bare minimum......I guess it doesn't quite fit the narrative of "rich white dudes protecting their privilege.....

    The best was yesterdays CBC, when an official on the new tip line, said they had reports of employers doing things like that....and while it met the law....it wasn't with the "spirit" of what the law intended. Translation: We know it's cr@p but there's nothing we can do about it.
    "Camo" is perfectly acceptable as a favorite colour.

    Proud member - Delta Waterfowl, CSSA, and OFAH

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  3. #102
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    Re: Franchise cost - there is some mis-information floating about the we re: the 1.5m net worth.

    What time Horton's has to say:


    Franchise Cost: $480,000 to $510,000* plus all applicable taxes (this includes a drive-thru)
    Additional Working Capital: (start-up costs) $50,000 (unencumbered)
    At least $153,000 of the franchise cost must be unencumbered (cash or liquid assets) in
    addition to the $50,000 working capital that must also be unencumbered. The remaining
    amount may be financed through various lending programs offered by the chartered banks,
    providing, of course, the candidate meets the normal borrowing requirements.
    The specific cost of a Tim Hortons license will depend upon the Tim Hortons building size and
    the required furnishings and equipment to be installed. The cost of a Tim Hortons license may
    exceed $510,000 in certain locations due to higher development costs.
    Included in the cost of a franchise is the following:
     All equipment, furniture, display equipment and signage
     Seven (7) week training program in the Oakville, Ontario, at Tim Hortons University
     A Restaurant opening crew/Manager of Operations Standards (MOS) to assist the
    opening of the Tim Hortons Restaurant (for a maximum period of two weeks)
     The use of all Tim Hortons Manuals
     Right to use trademarks and trade names
     Support from head office personnel who have vast knowledge in the food service
    business
    Not included in the cost of the franchise:
     The building (responsibility of the TDL Group)
     The property that the Restaurant is built (responsibility of the TDL Group)
    The term of the License agreement is usually 10 years and usually with options to renew for up
    to a further period of 10 years.
    *Subject to change without notice.
    Last edited by werner.reiche; January 9th, 2018 at 09:33 AM.

  4. #103
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    If the Franchise owners of Tim Hortons are not making good money, not sure who is....
    They, may need to put up a lot of money but there is a long wait list to have that opportunity.
    Greed (on the part of the employer) plays a big role on how much money an employee makes.
    "Everything is easy when you know how"
    "Meat is not grown in stores"

  5. #104
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    As for the costs, the $500,000 is the minimum.... and they don't even look at that it seems based on talking to a friend that tried to get a franchise.

    https://www.timhortons.com/ca/en/cor...ise-ca-faq.php
    "The cost of a Tim Hortons franchise varies depending on the restaurant size and location, along with other factors. You must have $1.5million in net worth and $500,000 liquid assets in order to qualify. Financial requirements may be lower or higher depending on the transaction type"


    Well according to that lawsuit from a few years back they were making about $250,000 so let's say $300,000 (or $400,000 for a good location) a year. Probably lots of hours, frustrations etc. but still a very good wage, even without benefit and pension. Now the new taxes that income bracket is about 53% but we will say they have a good accountant and get it to 40%.... that's still $180,000 in pocket.

    The increase was $2.40 .... let's say each Timmies has 20 staff working 35 hours (7 days a week, early to late... easily much more) and 50 weeks (very lowballing here).

    $2.40 * 35 * 50 = 4,200 The fact over 1/3 of that goes to taxes doesn't matter to the franchise owner.

    $4200 * 20 = $84,000

    So the income of the franchise just went down $84,000 + any other increased costs, the tax increases etc. not a nice hit to the franchise owner. So $300,000 is now $216,000 and still in that high income tax so .... now $129,600. $180,000 to $129,000 about a 30% kick in the nuts *(say 20% for the good location)... can't blame them. Especially with the extra costs of book keeping, the hours, probably a manager instead of working there yourself, emergencies, property maintenance (snow blowing etc.) .... nope, they are also still giving more than required by law in the case Wynne is lying about so ... using employees and rhetoric to attack business owners.... libs!


    BUT let's look at Wynne's benefit .... at the low end 1/3 of that $84,000 will be taxes

    Put that across 1,000 Tim Horton's and the type stores ... $28,000,000 in tax "revenues".

    New gov't "revenues", playing groups against each other to get votes and using others money to buy votes.... then hire 175 enforcement officers to make sure there is no dissent (also paid for by the taxpayer) ..... that's a Liberal gov't for you.
    Last edited by mosquito; January 9th, 2018 at 11:02 AM.

  6. #105
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    OK ..... time to redo my numbers... I was way to conservative.
    https://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...n-14-wage.html
    "Tim Hortons’ franchisees are warning the higher labour tab will cost them an average of $243,889 apiece per outlet."

    Take 1/3 as taxes again.... $81,296.33 and multiply across 1000 Tim Horton size operations .... $81,296,333.33 in new gov't "revenue"


    But wow, no wonder they are cutting back!!!!!

  7. #106
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    Personally I think they are cutting back because they are greedy......
    "Everything is easy when you know how"
    "Meat is not grown in stores"

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by fratri View Post
    Personally I think they are cutting back because they are greedy......

    I think you are either incapable of running a business and understanding it they are still surpassing Ontario labour laws by far and the left is just spinning this into their usual us against them ... it worked for the Communist party in Russia, China, Cambodia and the National Socialist party under Hitler .... so Wynne (and Trudeau) are just following in the lefts old tradition.

    I like what Brian has to say about this.... he has it just right that the $15 increase next year is just an attempt to divide and pay off the Union.... and you can listen to Brian talk about the absolute lies that were shown on CTV etc.
    https://www.facebook.com/brianlilley...5306084869773/
    Last edited by sawbill; January 10th, 2018 at 11:54 PM.

  9. #108
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    ............................
    Last edited by sawbill; January 10th, 2018 at 11:55 PM.
    "Everything is easy when you know how"
    "Meat is not grown in stores"

  10. #109
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    Let's start with the basics.....

    1) The goal of a business is to make money for the owner and investors.
    2) Business provide items so we can live and innovations so it the future is better.
    Don't want to confuse you so I will stop here tonight.
    Last edited by sawbill; January 10th, 2018 at 11:57 PM.

  11. #110
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    The OFL has been banging the drum in the media,I see. They'l be salivating at the thought of being able to organize a union drive. If that happens,TH will disappear over night.
    It's better to walk alone than with a crowd going in the wrong direction.

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