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Thread: Yeah 50 yards, Umm... No!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Possible, but the crossbow used would be a question. I do not think that a high end high speed crossbow would allow for much string jump but a slower crossbow it would be possible.
    The OP's point is that there isn't a crossbow on the market that can beat a deer's reaction time at that range. He's right.

    Just do the math.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GW11 View Post
    The OP's point is that there isn't a crossbow on the market that can beat a deer's reaction time at that range. He's right.

    Just do the math.

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    I did, back in the way when we all ran 150lb bows at 250fps people would say not to shoot deer at anything more than 30 yards. The speed that the bolt moves now in a high speed bow (420fps) the time that the arrow is in the air before it gets to the animal is about the same at 50 yards as the old bows were at 30 yards. You cannot say that the deer's reaction time has sped up with evolution, the deer could jump the string at 30 yards in the past the same way as they are jumping the string at 50 yards now.

    If a 150lb bow at 250fps shooting at 30 yards is ethical based on animals jumping the string then a 420fps bow at 50 yards is exactly the same thing. If your issue is deflection off a branch then your environment is a larger factor and that is an entirely different issue.

  4. #23
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    I agree with Fox, the speeds of new xbows have to be taken into consideration. Flight times sure change with faster speeds.

  5. #24
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    There are other schools of thought too. Deer don’t “jump” the string. The lowering of the deer is the result of it crouching to load up energy in its legs to jump and take off. It’s a reaction to the sudden noise caused by the bow going off.
    This all was explained to me many years ago. A deer’s natural reaction to the sudden noise that is within 20 or so yards of the deer, is to jump and take off without really knowing what the noise was. A deer that is relaxed at a greater distance from an unknown noise, tends to look to see what the noise was, to possibly identify a threat. This is why you bleat at a deer to stop it for a shot at distance (rifle).
    This explanation seems to make sense. I have had good luck stopping deer at a distance, to allow a good rifle shot.
    I bleated at a big buck once that was about 10 yds away and walking like he was on a mission. That deer dropped and took off out to about 40 yds, then stopped and turned around to see what the noise was. It was too far for me to shoot....

  6. #25
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    At 50 yards a deer has 1/3 of a second to move between the time the sound of the shot arrives and the time it takes for a bolt averaging 350 fps to cross the distance.

    Maybe some people believe a deer can't move much in 1/3 of a second. It's plenty of time for things to end up like the picture in the OP.

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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GW11 View Post
    At 50 yards a deer has 1/3 of a second to move between the time the sound of the shot arrives and the time it takes for a bolt averaging 350 fps to cross the distance.

    Maybe some people believe a deer can't move much in 1/3 of a second. It's plenty of time for things to end up like the picture in the OP.

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    Agree with you GW11.

    Here's a table of arrow speeds and time to distance (Dt is the difference in time between the sound and the arrow arriving).
    A deer's reaction time is supposed to be about 0.12 seconds.
    IMO - if you go beyond the 0.20 you're putting quite a bit of weight on "luck".
    Nothing wrong with that - just as long as your aware of it.
    For a simple comparison, 300fps@20 is about the same as 400@30.

    Sound Sp Arrow Sp Dt@20 Dt@30 Dt@40 Dt@50
    1125 250 0.187 0.280 0.373 0.467
    1125 275 0.165 0.247 0.330 0.412
    1125 300 0.147 0.220 0.293 0.367
    1125 325 0.131 0.197 0.263 0.328
    1125 350 0.118 0.177 0.236 0.295
    1125 400 0.097 0.145 0.193 0.242

    Deer reaction time 0.12 sec
    Last edited by werner.reiche; September 16th, 2019 at 02:56 PM.

  8. #27
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    Again, so much of it has to do with having the experience to "read" what the deer is doing. A new, inexperienced hunter won't be able to. If they start trying to take shots at those farther distances they are just asking for trouble. Beside, bow hunting is about getting close anyway.

  9. #28
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    That arrow looks to be a regular arrow shot from a bow, not a cross bow, anyway, how many deer are shot with a gun and never recovered? It doesnt matter what you choose to take your game with, because if you're not doing it right, things go bad....

  10. #29
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    The level of confidence in archery, including max. shooting distance on a certain game, depend on many factors. Especially these days.
    A seasoned shooter's 40 yards + consistency will exceed a novice's 20 yards best ever shooting.
    Practice, learn, know your game, understand your limits.
    “Think safety first and then have a good hunt.”
    - Tom Knapp -

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by werner.reiche View Post
    Agree with you GW11.

    Here's a table of arrow speeds and time to distance (Dt is the difference in time between the sound and the arrow arriving).
    A deer's reaction time is supposed to be about 0.12 seconds.
    IMO - if you go beyond the 0.20 you're putting quite a bit of weight on "luck".
    Nothing wrong with that - just as long as your aware of it.
    For a simple comparison, 300fps@20 is about the same as 400@30.

    Sound Sp Arrow Sp Dt@20 Dt@30 Dt@40 Dt@50
    1125 250 0.187 0.280 0.373 0.467
    1125 275 0.165 0.247 0.330 0.412
    1125 300 0.147 0.220 0.293 0.367
    1125 325 0.131 0.197 0.263 0.328
    1125 350 0.118 0.177 0.236 0.295
    1125 400 0.097 0.145 0.193 0.242

    Deer reaction time 0.12 sec
    I did up similar charts at both -20 air and +20 air a few years ago. Essentially no difference even though sound is 6 or 7% slower at -20. My charts were also based on 0.2 seconds being the acceptable limit.

    +20 Chart:



    -20 Chart:

    Last edited by Species8472; September 16th, 2019 at 10:36 PM.
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