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Thread: Black Powder Shotgun Modern Single Shots

  1. #1
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    Default Black Powder Shotgun Modern Single Shots

    Been doing some research (YouTube..lol) and came across Dave Canterbury who has extensive videos and and a adapter to convert modern single shotguns into BP with a 209 primer (have not ordered yet). I find this stuff fascinating, and in the process of making my own BP and in the meantime been using cut off high brass shells with FFF, wax paper wads and lead/steel shot, using WIN 209 primers. Smoke and fire is cool - equal volume shot to powder and the pattern effects are the samish at 30yrds with #4, #6, #7.5 and .690 round balls. Modern arms actually take higher pressures then BP, that does not mean go crazy... 90grs FFF is highest load tested so far (110 gr for Hawkins .50 with 250 REAL bullet, is deer load). Good news is, bore snake makes cleaning barrel a breeze.

    Just lots of fun and wow cool factor.
    Mark Snow, Libertarian Nepean, for 2020, Deputy Leader - Ontario Libertarian Party

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    Quote Originally Posted by line052 View Post
    Been doing some research (YouTube..lol) and came across Dave Canterbury who has extensive videos and and a adapter to convert modern single shotguns into BP with a 209 primer (have not ordered yet). I find this stuff fascinating, and in the process of making my own BP and in the meantime been using cut off high brass shells with FFF, wax paper wads and lead/steel shot, using WIN 209 primers. Smoke and fire is cool - equal volume shot to powder and the pattern effects are the samish at 30yrds with #4, #6, #7.5 and .690 round balls. Modern arms actually take higher pressures then BP, that does not mean go crazy... 90grs FFF is highest load tested so far (110 gr for Hawkins .50 with 250 REAL bullet, is deer load). Good news is, bore snake makes cleaning barrel a breeze.

    Just lots of fun and wow cool factor.
    I have a 12ga barrel for my ML and have been using it for years. I used to use standard 12ga shot cups but then found CVA made shot cups that worked great to hold the shot over the powder. They hold about 1 1/8th an oz of #5 for my Turkey Hunt.

    I also found you needed a cushion wad ...they are fiber wads to sit between powder/shot.

    load...
    Arte et marte (By Skill and by Fighting)...The RCEME motto

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    Mark..does the barrel you use have a choke....some wads are to stiff to pass them with out damage, but you can go 14ga ones to get by the choke.
    Arte et marte (By Skill and by Fighting)...The RCEME motto

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    Quote Originally Posted by line052 View Post
    Been doing some research (YouTube..lol) and came across Dave Canterbury who has extensive videos and and a adapter to convert modern single shotguns into BP with a 209 primer (have not ordered yet). I find this stuff fascinating, and in the process of making my own BP and in the meantime been using cut off high brass shells with FFF, wax paper wads and lead/steel shot, using WIN 209 primers. Smoke and fire is cool - equal volume shot to powder and the pattern effects are the samish at 30yrds with #4, #6, #7.5 and .690 round balls. Modern arms actually take higher pressures then BP, that does not mean go crazy... 90grs FFF is highest load tested so far (110 gr for Hawkins .50 with 250 REAL bullet, is deer load). Good news is, bore snake makes cleaning barrel a breeze.

    Just lots of fun and wow cool factor.
    You deer load in that 50 seems over max to me.

    The standard load was the volume matching the bore diameter, 50 grains to 50 cal. When they went west they would go "loaded for bear", this was a double charge, or 100gr for a 50 cal gun.

    Try to find your load maximums, traditions lists 105grs by volume as the maximum load when using FFFg, 110gr for using FFg. The FFFg burns faster and builds pressure quicker.

    My 33 1/2in barrel only recommends FFg or equivalent, FFFg burns too fast for that length of barrel but a Hawken is normally under 28in in barrel length.

    I would be really iffy about using a cut back shell, you are almost talking about putting a primed half shell in the gun before loading powder, in this case you would essentially be just pointing a loaded gun at your head as you loaded as that primer is there and ready to go. The adapters are inserts that have O-rings to seal up the chamber for gases and also have a small flash hole so you can load and then prime.

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    H&R Partner model 12 gauge single shot, fixed Modified Barrel, .712 on caliper, no wads (WAA12 type, ect are too tight.) To clarify prime the shell brass with 209, close up breech, pour FFF down barrel, Tamp wax paper down on powder, pour in shot, wax paper tamped down again. It works.

    FOX, dads original manual (1972), said up to 120 grs, he found it shot best with 110gr - I have tried 70-110 and achieved same conclusion. 250 gr, LEE R.E.A.L cast bullets with Alox.
    Mark Snow, Libertarian Nepean, for 2020, Deputy Leader - Ontario Libertarian Party

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    It does fire unless action is cocked, not an auto . Only manual cocking. So less risk. No sure of length, but long. I would guess 33 1/2" as well, heavy.. weights 11lbs. The original with brass kick plate, patch locker, trigger guard amd fore stock jam. PIA #10 ignition primers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    You deer load in that 50 seems over max to me.

    The standard load was the volume matching the bore diameter, 50 grains to 50 cal. When they went west they would go "loaded for bear", this was a double charge, or 100gr for a 50 cal gun.

    Try to find your load maximums, traditions lists 105grs by volume as the maximum load when using FFFg, 110gr for using FFg. The FFFg burns faster and builds pressure quicker.

    My 33 1/2in barrel only recommends FFg or equivalent, FFFg burns too fast for that length of barrel but a Hawken is normally under 28in in barrel length.

    I would be really iffy about using a cut back shell, you are almost talking about putting a primed half shell in the gun before loading powder, in this case you would essentially be just pointing a loaded gun at your head as you loaded as that primer is there and ready to go. The adapters are inserts that have O-rings to seal up the chamber for gases and also have a small flash hole so you can load and then prime.
    Mark Snow, Libertarian Nepean, for 2020, Deputy Leader - Ontario Libertarian Party

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    Sweet, I make my own over shot cards (10 different sizes), paper, cardboard, felt, hard board and clear plastic. Most can be made with "Staples" Large hole punch, the rest I make with Princess Auto punch set 1/8' to 1". The purpose of trying this was to be self sufficient for hunting, making powder (time consuming, ball media time), I make my own lead shot (swan shot) and slugs, plus custom cut down wads and over shot cards. I even bought a 50lbs of Princess Auto steel media blasting, which is # 6.5 to #7.5 in size. Having fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikePal View Post
    I have a 12ga barrel for my ML and have been using it for years. I used to use standard 12ga shot cups but then found CVA made shot cups that worked great to hold the shot over the powder. They hold about 1 1/8th an oz of #5 for my Turkey Hunt.

    I also found you needed a cushion wad ...they are fiber wads to sit between powder/shot.

    load...
    Mark Snow, Libertarian Nepean, for 2020, Deputy Leader - Ontario Libertarian Party

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    Quote Originally Posted by line052 View Post
    It does fire unless action is cocked, not an auto . Only manual cocking. So less risk. No sure of length, but long. I would guess 33 1/2" as well, heavy.. weights 11lbs. The original with brass kick plate, patch locker, trigger guard amd fore stock jam. PIA #10 ignition primers
    Glad you found the manual, 120gr is a stiff load.

    I still look at it as if you have taken your H&R, chambered a shell and then put the butt on the ground with the gun pointed directly at you, sure it is not cocked but that gun sure as heck is loaded and pointed at your head.

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    I would be very concerned about doing what you are doing, here is an article on pressured with black powder.

    Seeing that the max pressure of a shotgun is 12,500psi, you could be running into a serious problem.

    https://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_pressure.htm

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    I get it and your concern, and respect those limits. However, modern BP is not the smokeless even less so with homemade, keeping the measurements within stated composition, following same set procedures during manufacturing of BP is the best way to ensure consistency each time. I don't have the barrel measuring system for max CUP, and my crony is not working, but the kick is far less then a 7.5 gun club load and would be fine for rabbit and squirrel (which is the point)

    Is it a risk, yes, do I accept that risk, yes. I load 34grs of Longshot into my .690 round ball loads for 3" (gun club hulls - BPS TPS slug wads - 1/8' over shot card and roll crimp) and there is no formula in any of the 3 shotgun loading books I have for round ball, so I go by shot weight.

    What I do is not willy nilly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I would be very concerned about doing what you are doing, here is an article on pressured with black powder.

    Seeing that the max pressure of a shotgun is 12,500psi, you could be running into a serious problem.

    https://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_pressure.htm
    Mark Snow, Libertarian Nepean, for 2020, Deputy Leader - Ontario Libertarian Party

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