Fed Issue #23 - Federal Liberals eye tax on private health and dental plans, grabbing $2.9B

[JBen]

Just for a simple illustration. Assume nuclear families, with much the same lives. Mortgages kids, braces, 15 year old shingles or cars on their last set of wheels etc. One couple is solidly middle class, (rights around the mean and average) one couple well they to have to make choices, but maybe they bring home that extra 20-30g a year.

couple A not much spare $.
couple B manages to scrape $5,000 together. They put into an RSP so hopefully they can retire someday. It reduces their income and they get $1,500 back. They put that against the mortgage, or they put it into a TFSA where it grows tax free, even the dividends (normally taxed at 22%). That continues for the next 4 years when both their cars die and both have to find $20,000. Well couple B (assuming zero growth) has $6,000 in a TFSA for a down payment on a car and 20,000 for their future, The first couple?
credit line?

and the more or better off someone is, there are more and more and more ways to reduce income, more credits. Heck if your not quite rich but solidly better off there are all kinds of ways......

meanwhile the the poor working stiffs......

[mosquito]

JBen

Not all taxes are bad.... but the gov't using and creating them often is, the Liberals have wasted squandered and ran up debts that the monthly interest payments are now the third largest expense of the government. Then we see them openly talking about grabbing $100B that is pure and simple economic and cultural suicide! .... not mention unless your goal is to ruin the country dumber than a bag of rocks!

As for debt, to paraphrase my dad and I concur, it ranks right in there with other 4 letter words like hell and damn. Debt makes you a slave of the lender and when you see Canada paying out billions each month to just cover the debt (even while it is at such a low rate) to take on any more is once again right up there in IQ with the rock... except these rocks are on their way to the bottom of the Laurentian Abyss. The only "good" debt is the one you no longer have and I can draw a simple comparison. A friend of mine who is a teacher bought a house the same time my wife and myself did, his mortgage is now about $30K more than he bought the house for, while ours is paid, we kept the same Honda Civic (that at one point was almost $70 to fill) for 15 years and he changes cars every 3 or 4 years etc. He right now makes about $20K more than I do but thinks there is no point in paying off any debt while the interest rates are low... both hell and debt are to be avoided. Getting rid of that mortgage payment has allowed us to put away money in a TFSA for the kids University, He has about 4 or 5 years to get the combined years plus service to get the full pension but last time I talked to him he was saying he might have to put off retiring to avoid the pay cut since there was no money saved for the kids education. Debt is a slow poison that the sooner you stop ingesting the better you will live.

Now as for the $3000 for the camp etc. ... the tax credit the Liebrals have removed was for $500 for arts and sports, about the amount it would cost to put someone in group music lessons or Timbits hockey, money that is now funding two nannies, trips to Paris for a mob etc. That simple $50 or $100 a month more in taxes for a lower income earner is the difference in food and power, for the middle it is $1,000 a year against the mortgage (which over a couple years would save them much more), for the upper bracket that extra $100 and the new tax increase are money they won't spend and stores, restaurants and places like Toronto Distillery (that thanks to ON libs is Closing in January) etc. won't get.

Regardless, personal debt in Canada is at an all time high, idiots keep digging themselves in deeper and the responsible ones are getting shot repeatedly in the feet, legs and now as* by the Liebrals and their tax increases. Grabbing another $2.9B out of people's pockets is just another example of the unmitigated contempt the Liberals have for working people.

[terrym]

The $2.9 billion they will grab is not to lower the debt. It's to give big raises in election years so the unions get them re-elected. So no, it's not even really being invested in infrastructure or clean energy initiatives. Fraud is what it is but the sad part is the Canadian voters buy into the boolshheet. Idiots.

[JBen]

Your missing the point.
which is/was our tax code does indeed steel from the poor and give to the rich. How much debt we have as a sovereign nation etc. how it's spent, or wasted, or used to pay big govt, etc etc, are separate topics. Even if the country and province had zero debt and zero waste.

our tax regime would still steal from the "poor" (the middle class) and "reward" the rich. And the further away you are from the mean, the more it does so. The more a person is able to avoid taxation and in fact, get $ back. They still pay a Boat load, but....

Personal debt.
This is way more subjective but as above. Is it any wonder why so many are going into debt? Take those last two nuclear families and their car falling apart. Neither brings home $100k. Or their roof leaking. Do the math
for the middle class roughly
43% to taxes
40% to housing/food/clothing
whats left
?

so to put that into rough numbers
A) right at 70,000
B) well say is at 90,000

by the time life gets done with them neither has much $ left. To save
or put new shingles on a roof
or pay for 2 sets of braces ( most plans only cover 1,500) and when our kids got braces it was 8000 each.
Or to replace a car.
etc

[trimmer21]

Your missing the point.
which is/was our tax code does indeed steel from the poor and give to the rich. How much debt we have as a sovereign nation etc. how it's spent, or wasted, or used to pay big govt, etc etc, are separate topics. Even if the country and province had zero debt and zero waste.

our tax regime would still steal from the "poor" (the middle class) and "reward" the rich. And the further away you are from the mean, the more it does so. The more a person is able to avoid taxation and in fact, get $ back. They still pay a Boat load, but....

Personal debt.
This is way more subjective but as above. Is it any wonder why so many are going into debt? Take those last two nuclear families and their car falling apart. Neither brings home $100k. Or their roof leaking. Do the math
for the middle class roughly
43% to taxes
40% to housing/food/clothing
whats left
?

so to put that into rough numbers
A) right at 70,000
B) well say is at 90,000

by the time life gets done with them neither has much $ left. To save
or put new shingles on a roof
or pay for 2 sets of braces ( most plans only cover 1,500) and when our kids got braces it was 8000 each.
Or to replace a car.
etc

I really have an issue with your idea that it's all the fault of the "rich",that they're the EVIL ones because they have more than the rest of us,therefore,it should be OK to take from them and give it to those who don't through higher rates of taxation. "The rich" are rich because they worked hard for their money through entrepeneurship in business and commerce which afforded them better life choices with the ways and means to work towards those ends. Nobody will ever sell me on the idea that all that wealth was accumulated by theft,graft or other illegal means. If that was the case,they'd all have been jailed and assets seized,centuries ago. It's simply not true in the vast,vast majority of cases. People who espouse the idea that "the rich" don't pay taxes are sadly misinformed or just plain full of crap. Claims that "the rich" have more tax breaks than the rest of us are also dead wrong. What taxation tools are available for "the rich" are also available to everyone else,maybe to a smaller scale,but,available,none the less.
When some entity makes claims to the contrary,I ask "Where's the proof?" When they say "We should take from the rich",if you or I did that,it would be called theft,pure and simple and we get tossed in the bucket. So,what's the difference? Are we to believe that they have an obligation to give away their assets to those less fortunate? I doubt that,although,many do,to any number of philanthropic pursuits as a civic duty,much to their credit.
We as a society need to stop whining and bit**ing because someone else has been successful and achieved their lot in life and start figuring out why we haven't. It's not their fault,it's ours.

[glen]

Panama papers. People that should be paying.

2008 crash did more for the reduction of Polution in canada then any of the liars.

You can tax the average people all you want. Your just putting more people out of work.

The shell game they play to confuse people works.

[terrym]

They don't take from the rich to help the poor. They take from the struggling middle class to give to the PS unions.

[JBen]

JC on a chariot driven side car. One reason I really don't post a lot anymore.

Where did I say it's
A) the fault of the rich
B) they are evil
C) or even suggest it's totally unfair?

Before judging me, did you pause to ask if I think they are taxed "too much" and as a result our tax code is a mish mash and maze of credits, deductions and more? I do believe I said, entire industries have been birthed, to find ways to reduce taxes.

TFSAs
Harper wanted to double the contribution limit from 5,000 to 10,000.
1) think I said ( I did) I quite agree and thus......
2) all else equal they are (imo) a far better choice even for the typical person than RSP (for a few reasons)

But tell me Trimmer, how many families that gross say 70,000 have 10,000 a year to hide away in them. And are getting crushed by chit.
So who do they benefit more. Especially after 10-20 years of growth.

heres another example, maybe not as good but.
commuters into the GTA can claim their travel expenses. I paid 250/month from Pickering or let's call it 3G a year for the Go Train and get a tax credit.
Can a "stiff" that drives say 200km each day do the same?

Let's say your what Ms Wynne calls Rich (I don't).
150k gross.
can probably max their RSP each year, reducing their income around 20k and good for roughly 7,000 back. which then means they can likely max their TFSA as well. Further avoiding even more taxes.

meanwhile, the middle class that is shrinking, can't save.Has politicians worried about CPP and more...

perhaps a little perspective.

oh and btw Trimmer, I've never hid the fact iid make the sunshine list. Some years, paid more in taxes than someone who might be considered middle class grossed.
Do you want to ask me if I think I'm taxed way too much?

but I also know the MC is getting bent.

[trimmer21]

JBen,they could save and they could find the $10K to stash into their RSP,then,take the refund and stash that into their TFSA if....IF....Canadians would learn to toss the credit cards,learn the difference between good debt and bad debt and live within their means. They also need to stop blaming everything else for their inability to do so.

[JBen]

This is way over simplified and is only for illustration.
70,000 gross of which 43% goes to govt.
39,900 left. 40% of gross (28,000) goes to housing/food/clothing.
11,900 left

my gas budget even with Go Train was 3,000 year.
Car and house Insurance another 4500 year.
more I could list, like how expensive kids are...

do you want to know why so many reach for credit cards, or use credit lines.
Wont argue some of it is "choice", but....
If you really think people have........that much disposable income to really take advantage of the many ways to reduce taxes and or save and or pay down debt...

As I said.
if I'm going to give someone a cup of coffee somehow. .