Where's the moose you say??

[Deer Wrastler]

If you dont have any substantial empirical evidence to prove any group is over harvesting I would be careful pointing the finger. The actions of 1% sometimes are blown out of proportion to encompass the entire group and that my friends is called stereotyping! Blaming and complaining doesnt help solve problems but it does perpetuate them. If tags are issued you have the right to apply for them whether you agree or not. If you dont agree don't apply, all you can do is control your own actions not the actions of others.

[Noseyarentcha]

Change has not begun. Agree.
Sitting here talking and doing absolutely nothing but what we have been doing since before I was born isn't going to bring about change.
Waiting for leaders on both sides to come to an agreement isn't going to work. Leaders on both sides cannot stick to the topic of conservation AS IT APPEARS TODAY.
Too many old wounds get tossed into the talks and somebody walks away, leaving a bigger mess than before.
Can't stick to ONE simple subject.
Population increase for the good of the herd.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
The actions of 1% sometimes are blown out of proportion to encompass the entire group. Agree.
Why isn't there a transparent count on the numbers FN harvest so we can accurately gauge what is going on?
Does ANYBODY have that number?
It's easy to place blame about over harvesting without empherical evidence. Agree.
Simply provide the evidence that over harvesting is not going on and prove everbody wrong.
Dispell the myths, the stigma and the stereotyping.
Someone posted that a 5 year moose ban is in order.
After doing a bit of my own research, that seems like the only fair and sensible approach.
NOBODY touches the herds until their numbers are up.
....in a Utopian world that would happen.

[FamilyMan]

Judging by the number of comments this is a heated topic so I figured I would comtribute my 2 pennies. The moose population in Ontario is done for just give it another 5-6 years. If you want an example see the pickerel fishery in lake Nipissing. Reduced quotas, more and more aggressive slot sizes and yet, natives set gill nets and sell the fish commercially. FN get theirs and everyone gets to pay for the privilege of fishing an empty lake while the MNR "studies" the situation for reduced fish count. Took about 12 years but now non-FN dont bother to fish much. Certainly not like when I was younger.

Before someone jumps on my comments let me state that I'm blaming the MNR specifically, and the federal gov in general for creating two classes of citizens. The only way this ends is with moose on the species at risk list and hunting closed to everyone but FN.

[SK33T3R]

Just got some news .. 2 guys in our group have packed it in.

They both voiced the same sentiments -- the moose herd is F#$*ed !

Tired of being confronted by locals and seeing FN's driving up and down the roads, rifles within reach. Sometimes going in when we're coming out at the end of legal time (for us that is). Funny that we're limited by regulations and we're hunting with bows and for them it's unregulated and seasonless and quotaless and they've got the guns!

Anyway very few kind words and they're DONE!

[jaycee]

Change has not begun. Agree.
Sitting here talking and doing absolutely nothing but what we have been doing since before I was born isn't going to bring about change.
Waiting for leaders on both sides to come to an agreement isn't going to work. Leaders on both sides cannot stick to the topic of conservation AS IT APPEARS TODAY.
Too many old wounds get tossed into the talks and somebody walks away, leaving a bigger mess than before.
Can't stick to ONE simple subject.
Population increase for the good of the herd.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
The actions of 1% sometimes are blown out of proportion to encompass the entire group. Agree.
Why isn't there a transparent count on the numbers FN harvest so we can accurately gauge what is going on?
Does ANYBODY have that number?
It's easy to place blame about over harvesting without empherical evidence. Agree.
Simply provide the evidence that over harvesting is not going on and prove everbody wrong.
Dispell the myths, the stigma and the sterotyping.
Someone posted that a 5 year moose ban is in order.
After doing a bit of my own research, that seems like the only fair and sensible approach.
NOBODY touches the herds until their numbers are up.
....in a Utopian world that would happen.

All the above questions /statements are doing absolutely "no good " being bashed and thrashed around on this forum, they may get some people thinking, but nothing is done .
You should direct all you questions to those that make the decisions, in Toronto, and especially The Minister Of Natural Resources And Forestry, keep inundating her with letters and suggestions with copies to the various dept. heads .

All these discussions here do absolutely nothing but keep the members riled up and arguing amoung themselves.
I think over the years many have written, myself being one of them, but these letters fall on deaf ears.

Till our Gov. Changes the act or whatever the situation with FN is not going to change.
I personally know of CO's that have charged FN. people under both fishing and hunting regulations , but the charges are always dismissed or when/if they ever do go to court, are thrown out. It's a no win situation.

I am not putting all the blame on FN people as we have bad apples amoung our own , years ago one of the guys from Ohsweken, that worked with our D.U. group,
sad to me ," we are not all bad guys, and you guys are not all good guys " how true he was ,

[fratri]

Just got some news .. 2 guys in our group have packed it in.

They both voiced the same sentiments -- the moose herd is F#$*ed !

Tired of being confronted by locals and seeing FN's driving up and down the roads, rifles within reach. Sometimes going in when we're coming out at the end of legal time (for us that is). Funny that we're limited by regulations and we're hunting with bows and for them it's unregulated and seasonless and quotaless and they've got the guns!

Anyway very few kind words and they're DONE!

You can't manage the moose numbers or anything for that matter if you don't have the information (numbers being taken by all).... The only thing our government officials are doing is managing time and the moose are running out of that fast.

[Noseyarentcha]

I should direct my questions to those that make decisions in Toronto, a person who likely does not even hunt?
Shouldn't all of us?
Why would you, Jaycee, tell me to do exactly what you have tried in the past, knowing it does not work?
Hasn't the history of these talks proven to be nothing more than hot wind being blown up everybodys backside?
....but yeah....let's try some more of that cuz we can't even unite amongst ourselves to approach "the other side" without holding daddys hand. We can't do a thing without our leaders....even though we are both large groups of people....we just gotta hold that hand. The hand that withdraws when the going gets tough. Yup....that's the way to get 'er done.
Sounds like we should just walk away from the table, even here, on the forum. Just throw our hands in the air and not try to glean some bit of new knowledge or TRY to understand something from a different perspective.
Members are getting riled up because a person has questions, is being open minded, is not pointing their finger in the direction that you would like (or any direction, for that matter) and trying to learn?
Guess I should not be asking questions about hunting on a hunting forum.
Guess the OP should never have started the thread either.
I should not try to be open minded...better to come out with blazing sarcasm and call everyone a d$ck or a jerk or any of the other names and labels I've seen used on on this forum....cuz THAT does not rile people up and certainly promotes an environment of learning and open discussion.
While scouting today, I came to the conclusion that this moose thing doesn't directly affect my rights.
I don't hunt moose.
I'm not even going to think about it anymore cuz it's a DEAD issue.
I'm gonna sit back and wait to see who wins the finger pointing contest when the killing is done.
While you are busy pointing the finger at each other and saying the government should intervene to save a species that BOTH sides know is being pushed to the brink of extinction in certain areas....keep at it.....you are truly making a difference.
You can both blame the government in the end.
JAYCEE...the word "you" in this post is not specifically yourself. I hear where you are coming from...just not sure of the "tone."
Anyway....leave it to me to be the one standing there, holding the matches, when the firetrucks show up.
That's a "wrap."

[Noseyarentcha]

Last comment from me on this "angry topic."
Exactly Fratri.
Perfect.

[sawbill]

[QUOTE=jaycee;1004849" we are not all bad guys, and you guys are not all good guys " ,[/QUOTE]

When we take a moose out of the scheduled season or take one without having a proper tag, that's illegal.
When a FN does the same, its quite legal.

That's a big difference.

[jaycee]

When we take a moose out of the scheduled season or take one without having a proper tag, that's illegal.
When a FN does the same, its quite legal.

That's a big difference.

And there in lies the big problem, how do we get it through our gutless, spineless legislators thick skulls that they are the ones causing the problem by not passing and enforcing a law that treats everyone equally.