ON ISSUE #28 - 32-per-cent hike in minimum wage rates will cause many small businesses to close

[Bonkers]

Wow, isn't nice to see all the older people here that have had it much easier in life be Pro income inequality. What has made you so bitter? that people that work full time(reguardless of what job) don't deserve a living wage or a life.

[Bluebulldog]

Wow, isn't nice to see all the older people here that have had it much easier in life be Pro income inequality. What has made you so bitter? that people that work full time(reguardless of what job) don't deserve a living wage or a life.

Who said we had it easier? Bitter? You assume much.

"Deserve a living wage or life". Ok......minimum wage should be just that.....the minimum.....people should have some incentive to actually apply themselves, and / or get an education that will elevate them above the minimum.

You think we're talking because we were handed everything? You think no one against this has struggled? NO...in fact many of us are where we are because we were hungry, we were struggling. And to not only see people who have built businesses pour their life into them, to wind up struggling yet again to to poorly thought out policy.....so that a high school drop out can "have a better life" because they did absolutely nothing for it.......yeah...ok, totally fair.

Now economics 101.....

Tim's is a publicly traded company...you think their shareholders are going to allow them to lose profits in order to pay staff more? Nope....so now that person working the cash register is making more....but everything else has had the prices go up by equivalent....so a Med Reg is now $2.15......so much for added disposable income.

Yet the added income means the province and the feds get additional income taxes, don't they?

[mosquito]

Living wage .... gotta actually be bonkers to buy that.... minimum wage is a start out wage or a working in a small business or service with no skills job... those that have some talent or drive don't make that long and to think it is just one person in a house (apt. etc.) making that is to miss the vast majority of the reality.

I will say it again, the Liebrals are just throwing youth and women under the bus to try and buy the election .... Ontarios FAO says 50,000 jobs plus and some small business organizations say almost 3X that when they include businesses closing. However to a government economist all they see is the fact that over 1/3 of that is gov't "income" (taxes), if they wanted to help the poorer workers the minimum deductible would have gone up, not the income that much.


Ontario's minimum wage hike could cost 50,000 jobs: provincial watchdog
Job losses expected to be concentrated among teens and young adults
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/onta...jobs-1.4285443

Many groups representing small and large businesses have come out against the proposed wage increase.

Ryan Mallough, senior policy analyst at the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, said Tuesday the watchdog's report supports the need for the province to back away from the proposed hike and to hold consultations.

"We encourage the Ontario government to step back and take the time to find a solution that actually addresses the problem, without putting 50,000 Ontarians' jobs at risk, predominantly those of teens, young adults, and new immigrants," Mallough said in a statement.


I know numbers confuse lefties but I couldn't ask them to use the calculator
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...alculator.html

So here are the actual numbers, paid on a two week basis. NOTE the final amount and the taxes, looks like a good way to scrape more money out of Ontario workers and they make an extra $50 per week! OH and aren't they talking about upping the CPP too ........

So let's take a 37.5 hour week, paid every two weeks and put in minimum wage.

37.5 * 2 * 11.60 = 870

Salary or wages income 870.00
Total cash income 870.00
Taxable income for the pay period 870.00
Pensionable earnings for the pay period 870.00
Insurable earnings for the pay period 870.00
Federal tax deduction 47.85
Provincial tax deduction 27.30
Total tax deductions 75.15
CPP deductions 36.40
EI deductions 14.44
Total deductions 125.99
Net amount 744.01



37.5 * 2 * 14 = 1050
Salary or wages income 1,050.00
Total cash income 1,050.00
Taxable income for the pay period 1,050.00
Pensionable earnings for the pay period 1,050.00
Insurable earnings for the pay period 1,050.00
Federal tax deduction 73.07
Provincial tax deduction 41.28
Total tax deductions 114.35
CPP deductions 45.31
EI deductions 17.43
Total deductions 177.09
Net amount 872.91

[Bluebulldog]

Now. Having said my earlier piece. I will say this.

The province is piloting a basic personal income project in a few municipalities. It is also making it easier for low income families to access post secondary education.

I'm partially in favour of the first, and wholly in favour of the second. As we are seeing, that entry level jobs are not necessarily going to be no-skill positions, and post secondary, even in the form of a college certificate will greatly assist.

[fratri]

Who said we had it easier? Bitter? You assume much.

"Deserve a living wage or life". Ok......minimum wage should be just that.....the minimum.....people should have some incentive to actually apply themselves, and / or get an education that will elevate them above the minimum.

You think we're talking because we were handed everything? You think no one against this has struggled? NO...in fact many of us are where we are because we were hungry, we were struggling. And to not only see people who have built businesses pour their life into them, to wind up struggling yet again to to poorly thought out policy.....so that a high school drop out can "have a better life" because they did absolutely nothing for it.......yeah...ok, totally fair.

Now economics 101.....

Tim's is a publicly traded company...you think their shareholders are going to allow them to lose profits in order to pay staff more? Nope....so now that person working the cash register is making more....but everything else has had the prices go up by equivalent....so [COLOR="#FF0000"]a Med Reg is now $2.15......so much for added disposable income.

Yet the added income means the province and the feds get additional income taxes, don't they?

Are you F'N' kidding me.... $2.15 for a med coffee now. That is just crazy.... and yes I agree, unless the big corporations agree to make less, things will not change. Change must come from those who can make a difference. Remember (was it last year?) when we as a province used less natural gas (warm winter).... We may have saved on that winters gas bill but what did the big corporate guys do? They raised natural gas rates because they didn't make as much.
Those corporations demand their profit (10-15% or whatever it is), without them being on board (willing to make less) things cannot change, the only thing we will have is the smoke and mirror shows..
Maybe with the new revenue that this Liberal government will get, it will go toward the "free prescription drugs for anyone under 25".
And for the record...... we (5 boys) grew up with no money, no toys or fringes (we were poor).... In grade 7 I had to ask my friend that lived down the street to borrow his baseball glove so I can join the school team. Then the next year being embarrassed but feeling it was the only way, I had to ask him again to borrow the glove so I can play another year.... Then at the school year end,in grade 8 they pulled me out of the classroom, since my family had no money they said they would pay for my year end school trip. Being a proud (or maybe foolish) boy, I told them to go pound some salt as we were not poor, I just don't want to go....

What's the saying, "walk a mile in shoes"

[Bluebulldog]

Are you F'N' kidding me.... $2.15 for a med coffee now. That is just crazy.... and yes I agree, unless the big corporations agree to make less, things will not change. Change must come from those who can make a difference. Remember (was it last year?) when we as a province used less natural gas (warm winter).... We may have saved on that winters gas bill but what did the big corporate guys do? They raised natural gas rates because they didn't make as much.
Those corporations demand their profit (10-15% or whatever it is), without them being on board (willing to make less) things cannot change, the only thing we will have is the smoke and mirror shows..
Maybe with the new revenue that this Liberal government will get, it will go toward the "free prescription drugs for anyone under 25".
And for the record...... we (5 boys) grew up with no money, no toys or fringes (we were poor).... In grade 7 I had to ask my friend that lived down the street to borrow his baseball glove so I can join the school team. Then the next year being embarrassed but feeling it was the only way, I had to ask him again to borrow the glove so I can play another year.... Then at the school year end,in grade 8 they pulled me out of the classroom, since my family had no money they said they would pay for my year end school trip. Being a proud (or maybe foolish) boy, I told them to go pound some salt as we were not poor, I just don't want to go....

What's the saying, "walk a mile in shoes"

Spot on.

Sadly, many people of a certain age who also received participation trophies, and weren't allowed to fail, think real life actually works like that.....

However, many people choose to ignore the fact that we are a capitalist economy. I love getting into discussions with some people who vilify entities like Loblaws, who stand to lose 190 million by this one piece of legislation......and then forget their pension plan has a ton of Loblaws stock. ( Bread price fixing aside).

I love it when people assume success just happened......truth is, being hungry, and remembering THAT drives one to succeed far more than a pat on the back and an attaboy every time.

[fishermccann]

Do you think that someone living-subsisting on minimum wage buys 2 dollar coffee's , get real. If your coffee goes up 25 cents and you still buy it, then we know that loss of a quarter does not put you on the street.

[Bluebulldog]

Do you think that someone living-subsisting on minimum wage buys 2 dollar coffee's , get real. If your coffee goes up 25 cents and you still buy it, then we know that loss of a quarter does not put you on the street.

Used mainly for example.

Ok...since you want to nit pick. Groceries....

Cost of labour goes up for the stocker.....you think the price of basic groceries isn't going to be increased? Liter of milk, loaf of bread? The amount of disposable income available due to this lovely piece of legislation is negligible.

Oh, and from what I've seen of many low income earners.....they have no compunction spending $2 on a Timmies, or $11-$12 on a pack of smokes......

[mosquito]

Just got back from Metro, huge lines and very few tellers.... apparently they have cut back on hours, so longer waits....

and the difference on her paycheque she told me would be ....... $4 .... YEP ...... $FOUR

Nope, the Liberal's don't care about the workers, the poor, those on welfare and disability, old age pensioners etc. this is just them trying to get more money in and buy the election using other people's money.

Small businesses will have to have their owners there for longer hours or close earlier and big price increases as suppliers pass on the their increased costs. Liberal voters truly have no clue it seems when it comes to running their own business and budgets and payroll etc. , they can't.... either that or it is deliberate sabotage of the lower and middle incomes... all while spinning it as helping. Stupid, callous caniving or sabotage... those seem to be the choices.



As for Tim Hortons.


Tim Hortons heirs cut paid breaks and worker benefits after minimum wage hike, employees say

'I wasn't marching down the street asking for this pay raise. Now I'm worse off'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-horton-s-tims-timmies-doubledouble-minimum-wage-ontario-kathleen-wynne-labour-1.4470215

Besides losing paid breaks, the document states workers with more than five years of service will have to pay 50 per cent of the cost of benefits, and employees with between six months and five years service will have to pay 75 per cent.

An employee with more than five years service told CBC news prior to this their benefits were covered 100 per cent by the company.




and as we see more end up on the streets....


https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...e-do-more.html
Family shelters have been at 100 per cent capacity every night recently, women’s and youth shelters at 97 or 98 per cent, pretty much all shelters consistently over 94 per cent.




Businesses cannot be expected to run losing money, they will close or find ways to keep making money (the goal of opening a business) and only the delusional will think otherwise.

[fishermccann]

Used mainly for example.

Ok...since you want to nit pick. Groceries....

Cost of labour goes up for the stocker.....you think the price of basic groceries isn't going to be increased? Liter of milk, loaf of bread? The amount of disposable income available due to this lovely piece of legislation is negligible.

Oh, and from what I've seen of many low income earners.....they have no compunction spending $2 on a Timmies, or $11-$12 on a pack of smokes......

Ok the stock workers wage goes up, so you are saying the store owner raises the price to cover that. If the owner does this, why would there be a job loss? A quick question, to find out your mind set, if a shirt you wanted was 18.99 and made in China, would you pay 19.99 for the exact same shirt if it was made in Canada, but a caveat would be, that the dollar extra would go to the factory workers wages and not the company shareholders.