Fed Issue #50 - Canada to buy USED fighter jets........

[Woodsman]

I would venture to say that any "lead time" would be minimal.

And you base this opinion on what?
Have you been involved with the military trials and procurement process?
I was involved with the small arms conversion trials in 1980.
It was 1988 before the roll out started and took over 2 years for all to be converted.
And this would be far less of a process than change than a fighter platform.

[mosquito]

Let's try a few facts....

The original plan was to take the first 4 in 2017 and have a squadron in the air in 2018, that got pushed back 12 months then they cancelled delivery, we are still in the program and no matter how it is spun the F-35 is still in the competition.

Justlied told the vet that they were asking too much... yet he has money for every idiotic green project, terrorists, foreign governments etc. in the tune of billions.... pictures speak best...
https://scontent.fybz1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...82&oe=5ADF41DE

They are delivering a finished and tested product, it will be flight tested of course but to use the small arm analogy is like opening the box, checking it and test firing it and handing it off the to the grunt. It is (to use the Prime Minister's style) "the uh .... um... uhhhhh .... um should we um....... buy this um.... but it might threaten Bombardier uh... somehow... and um uh....... we will make a decision.... um.... uh .... when we make a decision" type of political decision making that is killing the Canadian timeline and we see the "competition" (which the F-35 is still part of) that delay, stalled and muddled.

[Woodsman]

My point is simple.
If we chose a new fighter platform today how long would it take to be in place at the squadron level?
First off a contract would have to be negotiated.
Would we jump to the front of the line delivery wise. Not likely.
How long to upgrade our technicians (airframe, avionics, safety systems and weapons) to the new equipment? Again it would also include time waiting on the planes to arrive to give them experience with the platform.
Time to select and source flight simulators also has to be factored in.
How long for our pilots to transition in to the new platform. Again we would need planes and simulators first before getting to this.
For both the technicians & pilots we would also have to train the trainers first.
None of this can even begin to start until the platform is selected.
How long before the logistical system would be ready to support the new planes? Again this would take time.
So yes lead time wouldn't be minimal.

[Woodsman]

but to use the small arm analogy is like opening the box, checking it and test firing it and handing it off the to the grunt.

If the procurement process for the small arms replacement was even close to that simple and for an airframe it would be even more complex.
Some things you missed in the small arms competitions like the trials of different types, identifying Canadian modifications and having them engineered, negotiating the contracts, training the trainers,training the weapon technicians, training the users and creating a logistical system to support the new equipment.

[trimmer21]

My point is simple.
If we chose a new fighter platform today how long would it take to be in place at the squadron level?
First off a contract would have to be negotiated.
Would we jump to the front of the line delivery wise. Not likely.
How long to upgrade our technicians (airframe, avionics, safety systems and weapons) to the new equipment? Again it would also include time waiting on the planes to arrive to give them experience with the platform.
Time to select and source flight simulators also has to be factored in.
How long for our pilots to transition in to the new platform. Again we would need planes and simulators first before getting to this.
For both the technicians & pilots we would also have to train the trainers first.
None of this can even begin to start until the platform is selected.
How long before the logistical system would be ready to support the new planes? Again this would take time.
So yes lead time wouldn't be minimal.

With such a top-heavy bureaucracy,maybe,we should just cut to the chase and contract the entire defense department out to the US. Enough of the Liberal BS.

[Woodsman]

trimmer this has being going on for years and definately has not been limited to the Liberals.
Of the three major parties the only one that can't be accused of it is the NDP but only because they have never had the chance to do so.

[mosquito]

CAE already has the Flight Sim for a couple years now on the F-35
https://globalnews.ca/news/1177142/f...r-company-cae/

https://militarysimulation.training/...-lightning-ii/
In 2013, an alliance between prime contractor Lockheed Martin and CAE was announced –hedging that Canada will elect to buy F-35s. The resulting Memorandum of Understanding addresses F-35 Lightning II training system support and services in Canada – with CAE designated as a preferred provider of in-country F-35 training support, training system integration, operations and maintenance.


We already were at the top of the line and then moved out, the impact of reentry????


We still are in the program... for now... so atleast we haven't had to payout the $313,000,000 USD ... yet.
http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...documents-show

and those used jets.... well they are available because Australia is buying the F-35...
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...93c31998d58392

I wonder how the uh... um Lib uh maybe... non decisions are affection future work in Canada....
https://www.f35.com/global/participation/canada

Lockheed Martin has a strong partnership with Canadian industry, providing supply chain contracts to more than 1,400 Canadian companies and billions of dollars in awarded contracts across all lines of business.

Canada's participation in the Joint Strike Fighter Program began in 1997, allowing the nation to be a part of the selection of the fighter aircraft that will recapitalize three U.S. fighter fleets as well as numerous allied countries. Domestic industry continues to benefit from the development of the F-35 through the localized establishment of advanced manufacturing technologies. Learn more about the Canadian companies contributing to the F-35 program.

https://www.f35.com/global/news/canada-news

https://www.f35.com/global/participa...-participation
Canadian industry has more than $1 billion in industrial opportunities already contracted for the F-35 Lightning II program – more than double Canada’s current investment in the F-35. Canadian companies have played a large part in the development and production of the F-35, resulting in hundreds of Canadian jobs. And the program will continue to bring manufacturing and production opportunities to Canada, with an estimated 50,000 jobs created over the life of the program.


P.S.
Love the flight SIM!!!
https://www.f35.com/media/videos-det...tor-is-awesome


P.S.S.
no point in a new post... .... and contrary to those that are completely uninformed about the computer and aeronautics industry I did read them but you don't seem to understand so no point in arguing.

[Woodsman]

mosquito did you even read your links?
Canada has not bought any simulators but did invest in a simulator manufacturer.
That link is almost 4 years old.
Do you know for a fact they have developed/produced an operational simulator for the F 35 that is assuming that is the platform chosen. Or maybe one of the other platforms that may be considered?
How could they develope a simulator for a Canadian verision without knowing what Canadians will require if purchased?

[trimmer21]

trimmer this has being going on for years and definately has not been limited to the Liberals.
Of the three major parties the only one that can't be accused of it is the NDP but only because they have never had the chance to do so.

Thank God for small mercies. Could you just imagine where Canada would be if those morons ever got their hands on us?

[Woodsman]

Further left than Liberals or even the NDP is the Communists.
They have a good record of supporting the military.
Food for thought.