ATV Clubs / Is There A Reason For Them

[Snowwalker]

That was toddy's post. You're sure right on the "pucker factor". That's quite the bridge to take a chance with. Hopefully,there's an alternate route. I've never been there,so,I have no idea.

Ok ok. I was posting before my coffee.

There is two alternates.
1) Run Hwy 17 from North Bay to Sudbury, and bypass the whole trail section. Works if you have a street legal Bike or 4X4 truck, but ATVs and Snowmobiles can't do that.

2) Turn south off the trail at the maintenance siding and drive the access road( hoping it's not gated at the far end) south past the local dump into a residential area. Drive 15 to 20 Km through residential streets and on to a county road where you need to find a way across the ditch, to get back on the trail.

Again do able with street legal bikes, and 4X4's, but not so much ATV, or Snowmobiles.

It is the only bridge that has no side rails, and is being destroyed by vandalism and/or faster then natural decay.

[line052]

I got into snowmobiling 3 yrs ago. Whether it is crown land for ATV or snow machine..you need to understand the law and how it applies to Hunters and Fishermen. I will clarify that statement. For the legal purpose of hunting or fishing, (ONLY), on crown land Public (municipal public lands).

I had called around to clubs when and was told I had to buy a trail pass to access trails on Crown land, or Public access lands. A few of the clubs cited https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90m44 as the law that said you had to buy a pass. So me being me, looked up the law:

The Act covers trail passes, but within the act it provides for 14 exemptions, including legal hunting and fishing during an open season. OFHA has prepared this document http://www.ofah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-Hunters.pdf

Since I only hunt on crown land or public access (Ottawa Area) for the legal purpose of hunting and fishing (not so much), I am not required to buy a permit. That also means I cannot use trails that are not on the crown land I hunt, I.E> I cant leave CL and go clubs private land access trails (and I do not)

S.T.O.P officer program was developed in 1983 to train special constables (SC) to act as agents of the government, many clubs sent members on the STOP program to help with enforcement (Many hrs of books and OJT training required, pass test and become as SC ). The STOP officer program was cancelled on 16 Feb 2016. A couple things I have learned about clubs that still employ STOP officers. I will premise this next statement with KNOW THE LAW, get educated.

A Stop Officer must comply with requirements of the program:

-Includes carrying government issued SC STOP ID card.
-Vest, safety gear, and all other gear required to be carried to perform legal duties of SC.

It has been my experience, that every person that has stopped me with 2016 trail pass has failed the requirements to compliant with the law of a constable. More frightening was/is the following points:

-some clubs lend/use the STOP officer vest, who are not trained constables,
-Club members have tried to stop me and told me to follow them, once stopped (I always stop, and challenge ID Requirments)
-I have been threatened by club members
-every time I have been stopped by the person with vest, they could not produce ID of the constable named on the vest
-some clubs impersonate and issue tickets illegally,
-all STOP officers (with vest), I have encounter said they were going to issue me a ticket, until I challenged authority
-I video each encounter, to protect my rights and firearms license

Know the laws, demand they show you ID, and compliance requirements, I have a STOP compliance requirements checklist, that a Constable is required to carry with them in the performance of duties.

I directly challenge them to follow me to closest road where I will have the police attend to arrest them for impersonating an officer of the courts.

All of them call me a dick, and tell I should buy a pass. I wont if there is no requirement for me to do so. I will not give up my rights, or free access to public/crown lands in which they trying to charge me to use. I will not comply with bullies, poor education, and downright criminal activities by the clubs in my areas. I have submitted several reports of my encounter to the OPP with no action or follow up from OPP.

KNOW the law, exercise your rights and video each encounter. Be compliant, be polite, but be firm.

Mark

[Snowwalker]

Wpuld you be able to post the list of requirements.
Knowlage is power.

[trimmer21]

I got into snowmobiling 3 yrs ago. Whether it is crown land for ATV or snow machine..you need to understand the law and how it applies to Hunters and Fishermen. I will clarify that statement. For the legal purpose of hunting or fishing, (ONLY), on crown land Public (municipal public lands).

I had called around to clubs when and was told I had to buy a trail pass to access trails on Crown land, or Public access lands. A few of the clubs cited https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90m44 as the law that said you had to buy a pass. So me being me, looked up the law:

The Act covers trail passes, but within the act it provides for 14 exemptions, including legal hunting and fishing during an open season. OFHA has prepared this document http://www.ofah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-Hunters.pdf

Since I only hunt on crown land or public access (Ottawa Area) for the legal purpose of hunting and fishing (not so much), I am not required to buy a permit. That also means I cannot use trails that are not on the crown land I hunt, I.E> I cant leave CL and go clubs private land access trails (and I do not)

S.T.O.P officer program was developed in 1983 to train special constables (SC) to act as agents of the government, many clubs sent members on the STOP program to help with enforcement (Many hrs of books and OJT training required, pass test and become as SC ). The STOP officer program was cancelled on 16 Feb 2016. A couple things I have learned about clubs that still employ STOP officers. I will premise this next statement with KNOW THE LAW, get educated.

A Stop Officer must comply with requirements of the program:

-Includes carrying government issued SC STOP ID card.
-Vest, safety gear, and all other gear required to be carried to perform legal duties of SC.

It has been my experience, that every person that has stopped me with 2016 trail pass has failed the requirements to compliant with the law of a constable. More frightening was/is the following points:

-some clubs lend/use the STOP officer vest, who are not trained constables,
-Club members have tried to stop me and told me to follow them, once stopped (I always stop, and challenge ID Requirments)
-I have been threatened by club members
-every time I have been stopped by the person with vest, they could not produce ID of the constable named on the vest
-some clubs impersonate and issue tickets illegally,
-all STOP officers (with vest), I have encounter said they were going to issue me a ticket, until I challenged authority
-I video each encounter, to protect my rights and firearms license

Know the laws, demand they show you ID, and compliance requirements, I have a STOP compliance requirements checklist, that a Constable is required to carry with them in the performance of duties.

I directly challenge them to follow me to closest road where I will have the police attend to arrest them for impersonating an officer of the courts.

All of them call me a dick, and tell I should buy a pass. I wont if there is no requirement for me to do so. I will not give up my rights, or free access to public/crown lands in which they trying to charge me to use. I will not comply with bullies, poor education, and downright criminal activities by the clubs in my areas. I have submitted several reports of my encounter to the OPP with no action or follow up from OPP.

KNOW the law, exercise your rights and video each encounter. Be compliant, be polite, but be firm.

Mark

Sect 130 Criminal Code is quite specific. "Personation" is an indictable offense (arrestable when found committing) and,as such,a citizens arrest may be affected and Police called. Failing that with an unco-operative subject,gather all pertinent observations and write them down at the time of occurrence,then,contact police. It's a little more involved,but,well worth it,sending a very powerful message to OFSC and affiliates that if they screw up,they'll be skinned which has likely led to the cancellation of the program. Personally,I have absolutely no issue with going after these people with a vengence.

[line052]

I agree with you trimmer, but I let them implicate themselves first (while video tapping), then ask them to follow me. For me the issue is keeping my firearms license and not doing anything to create a reason to have them seized, for a lie or false statements by two people verses me alone (video). It can happen quite easy today in any situation. If an OPP officer identifies himself, no matter the reason (club member or STOP) and duties he is performing, you must comply at all times. Again, it makes me angry to know many people have no idea of the law..and, had I not looked into it I would be buying $400.00 plus in trail passes per year.

Sect 130 Criminal Code is quite specific. "Personation" is an indictable offense (arrestable when found committing) and,as such,a citizens arrest may be affected and Police called. Failing that with an unco-operative subject,gather all pertinent observations and write them down at the time of occurrence,then,contact police. It's a little more involved,but,well worth it,sending a very powerful message to OFSC and affiliates that if they screw up,they'll be skinned which has likely led to the cancellation of the program. Personally,I have absolutely no issue with going after these people with a vengence.

[trimmer21]

I agree with you trimmer, but I let them implicate themselves first (while video tapping), then ask them to follow me. For me the issue is keeping my firearms license and not doing anything to create a reason to have them seized, for a lie or false statements by two people verses me alone (video). It can happen quite easy today in any situation. If an OPP officer identifies himself, no matter the reason (club member or STOP) and duties he is performing, you must comply at all times. Again, it makes me angry to know many people have no idea of the law..and, had I not looked into it I would be buying $400.00 plus in trail passes per year.

For anyone without a background in law enforcement,your post is right on. There's no way a firearms license can be revoked or firearms seized over something like as you've described,though. You're absolutely correct when dealing with a bona fide OPP/OMNRF officer,too. No matter what they say,always comply. If you don't agree,there's many mechanisms in place to contest anything,later,including court. When dealing with so-called "trail wardens" or STOP officers,never take what they say at face value. No matter what,they're not Police and as such have ZERO authority to enforce any laws other than checking permits. They better be in the right place,know what they're talking about and be correct.

[toddy]

Kind of what figured. I bet you are not crossing it in a 4000 Lb Vehicle towing an offroad trailer are you?

not me, but I have witnessed a guy with a pickup and a camper go across it. The pucker factor was huge for me and I was only watching it lol

[toddy]

Again, it makes me angry to know many people have no idea of the law..and, had I not looked into it I would be buying $400.00 plus in trail passes per year.

$400 dollar trail pass? try less then $200

[line052]

I have 2 sleds.

$400 dollar trail pass? try less then $200

[Snowwalker]

not me, but I have witnessed a guy with a pickup and a camper go across it. The pucker factor was huge for me and I was only watching it lol

Trouble is that it is part of the TCAT, so it is a national trail. It is used by street legal bikes, dirt bikes, atvs, side x sides, snowmobiles, and yes 4X4 trucks and a few Subarus. Ontario is the only section of the system that is in trouble.