Owen Sound Times Articles

[fishermccann]

Thanks Fenelon, very well thought out and written, using a lot of common sense.

I agree 100% . Just because you can do something, (legally), does not mean you should. By the way, my son is a licenced trapper.

[Sharon]

I learned a lot from what you wrote Fenelon, thanks.

[trappermatt]

The recent incident that caused this in the Dundalk area was 100 percent illegal , I’m completely sick of trappers getting thrown under the bus for (expletives not suitable for use here ) idiots who get ahold of traps and do this stuff , I’ve been involved in the dog and trap issue in southern Ontario for over 15 years now and been round and round on this issue , recently had someone ask in a Facebook trapping group ask what was the best body grip trap to make bucket sets for foxes , just a disaster in the making , luckily was able to steer the fella in the direction of a trappers course instructor and headed off a Potential bad issue , I am of the opinion that bait , lure and killer traps are a completely poor combination on the ground because of the attraction to dogs , and it seems anytime we have an issue it involves this combo and trappers need to regulate themselves accordingly , we have the knowledge and ability’s to set to avoid dog catches and need to do it

[trappermatt]

Dano O, there is absolutely no reason why body gripper kill traps need to be set on the ground, other than it's a perceived right for trappers to do so because it's allowed in the regs. I've trapped for 35 years now and all my fisher, marten, and racoon sets are elevated out of dog range, using either a pail or box cubby on a running pole. I've never had any problem luring the target animal to run the pole to encounter the baited cubby. Any trapper that argues you'll catch more on the ground in a blind trail set, etc. has not been trapping for very long. Why would you want the animal trapped on the ground anyway, as there is a very good chance it will get damaged grade from mice, soiled fur , and possibly belly taint from the part of the carcass that was insulated from contact with the ground. How can you feel OK about leaving a baited kill trap on the ground knowing that there is a very good chance someone's dog is going to die in it? Did your neighbour's yellow Lab from two farms over read the latest copy of the regs before he did his daily walk across the property to come visit the kids and play with your dog. So you have a registered line on crown land that gives you the privelege to be the sole manager of the fur populations on that block of land. How can you possibly not think of the others who will also legally access and use that same piece of land? eg. the licenced hunter who's walking all the trails with his pointer, hoping to shoot a grouse, the hunter running two beagles on snowshoe hare, the couple from the city who are at the cottage and bring the kids and dog for a walk in the bush. The dog is legally off leash, under supervision and control by the owner, not "running at large" as specified by definition under the FWCA, but goes and investigates something that smells real good, 50 yds off the trail they're walking on. So as a trapper, you're going to argue that they should have known better and you have the right to set your kill traps on the ground?
There's a pile of non-thinking going on and OFMF is not seeing the trees because of the forest on this one. They're investing all their time and resources in an attempt to do damage control on the never -ending wave of dog kill events, while adamantly resisting any logical improvement to the regulations. They should be leading the push to revise the regs.
The public has had enough and rightly so. Social media and petitions will force regulation changes soon once MNR gets pressured. I wonder if there will be any industry left.

Nobody wants to kill anyone’s dog but the use of never ending wave of dog killing events is maybe a little excessive , these incidents are by and large a small number when you take let’s say 90 days of trapping season with 6000 trappers in the province, even if they only set one trap each , pretty large number of potential interactions, let’s be realistic in that yes dogs have been captured and killed but I’m sure not going to let the trappers of this province be accused of “a never ending dog killing wave “

[be2man]

The recent incident that caused this in the Dundalk area was 100 percent illegal , I’m completely sick of trappers getting thrown under the bus for (expletives not suitable for use here ) idiots who get ahold of traps and do this stuff , I’ve been involved in the dog and trap issue in southern Ontario for over 15 years now and been round and round on this issue , recently had someone ask in a Facebook trapping group ask what was the best body grip trap to make bucket sets for foxes , just a disaster in the making , luckily was able to steer the fella in the direction of a trappers course instructor and headed off a Potential bad issue , I am of the opinion that bait , lure and killer traps are a completely poor combination on the ground because of the attraction to dogs , and it seems anytime we have an issue it involves this combo and trappers need to regulate themselves accordingly , we have the knowledge and ability’s to set to avoid dog catches and need to do it

A question I have is that if only licensed trappers are to possess or set traps, why are they not only sold to licensed trappers? It would seem to be a fairly simple control for retailers to only sell traps to someone who can produce a trappers license. It's gonna be the wild west out there as long as anyone can buy traps retail and there's no onus on the seller to confirm they are legally entitled to purchase and use them.

[Fenelon]

Re: "never-ending wave of dog kill events". I don't know what else you'd call it, and it's not just this province. I hit Google and it made me sad to see how many of these events occur, literally on a weekly basis in BC, NFLD, Manitoba, etc. Just in my neck of the woods there are 2-5 dogs killed per year and the majority of these do not go viral and/or are not even reported to the local news agencies. This is just my local area. There's no reporting on it, so how many incidents are there that we don't hear about? Try calling your local district office and have a discussion with either a CO who patrols the area, or talk to the Enforcement Coordinator. You'll be shaking your head for sure. I personally know of 3 more dead dogs this past October - mid Dec. in my area, just from word of mouth. A beagle in the Victoria Co forest in late November - baited ground cubby while hare hunting (I work with the owner of the dog), fox hound dead in fisher cubby during the deer hunt over at Bass Lake in Harvey Twp. This would have been a registered line area and whoever left the trap must have had baited ground sets when hunters were legally running their dogs during the hunt. I ran into this crap myself this past October when I decided to go for a grouse walk with my dog. We were back in the truck within 20 mins after I found a Belisle 220 coon set in a plastic pail baited with fish, on the ground. I'm literally afraid to hunt my dog now on public lands, worrying that my dog is going to encounter a ground set. I hope this set didn't kill the next guy's dog that hunted that trail behind me. There is absolutely no possible way the trapper could not expect a dog encounter when they've left their equipment like this.
The Strain incident in Kawartha Highlands really caused news when a 100,000 + petition went directly to MNR and and from what I heard, a Working Group was made to address it. Saddest thing here is there were no reg changes and it happened again - same situation with ground cubby set and it was less than 10km away from the first incident ! Again, still no reg changes to get this stuff off the ground. Now the Dundalk dog incident. Matt - where did you hear that it was not a legal set, as I heard the opposite from a CO ? . I imagine you could get the truth on it if you called over to enforcement at Aurora District. It just baffles me why there's such a reluctance to make a positive change to the regs to get this stuff off the ground. The only drawback I can see is the extra 10 mins it takes to find a running pole and attach the cubby. Once it's there, it's faster than doing a new ground set every time IMO. You step off the machine, bait the box, add a trap, and attach your C-biner or wire.

[Fenelon]

A question I have is that if only licensed trappers are to possess or set traps, why are they not only sold to licensed trappers? It would seem to be a fairly simple control for retailers to only sell traps to someone who can produce a trappers license. It's gonna be the wild west out there as long as anyone can buy traps retail and there's no onus on the seller to confirm they are legally entitled to purchase and use them.

As far as I know there is no onus on the seller. It's the individual that has to comply with the regs. I was in to the Cabelas in Barrie and saw that they didn't even have signs up on the shelves. I told the clerk this was the least thing a reputable company like Cabelas could do. Under the Ont law you have to either hold a licence, or have taken the fur course within the past 5 years in order to be in possession of an operable trap. A farmer that meets the definition of farmer can possess and use traps on their own property without a licence. It would probably be good optics for Cabelas to have a store policy where you show documentation before they sell the traps - eg. fur course diploma, trapping licence, OMAFRA reg. number, etc. but I don't think it's required.

[finsfurfeathers]

A question I have is that if only licensed trappers are to possess or set traps, why are they not only sold to licensed trappers? It would seem to be a fairly simple control for retailers to only sell traps to someone who can produce a trappers license. It's gonna be the wild west out there as long as anyone can buy traps retail and there's no onus on the seller to confirm they are legally entitled to purchase and use them.

Talk like that and soon we'll be into trap registries, TPAL, and Mayor Tory calling for a ban.

[be2man]

Talk like that and soon we'll be into trap registries, TPAL, and Mayor Tory calling for a ban.

Have to produce a license to buy ammunition. Don't hear about a rash of dogs being shot accidentally. I would think as a dog guy you'd be concerned about your dogs getting caught in irresponsibly set body grip traps.

[finsfurfeathers]

Have to produce a license to buy ammunition. Don't hear about a rash of dogs being shot accidentally. I would think as a dog guy you'd be concerned about your dogs getting caught in irresponsibly set body grip traps.

Of course I am however working on the wrong end of the equation. Got to make those who use them irresponsibly punishable to an extent sufficient to make it a deterrent.
A retailer only sells ammo and guns to licensed people but some how it still gets in the hand of criminal should they be held accountable?
A couple of cases where the perpetrator was nailed to the cross would go further than setting up a system for retailers to check paper.