I don't know why the deer population crashed

[Fox]

deer-michigan-car-hunting.JPG

This was commercial, but remember that we do impact the population by hunting.

[MikePal]

I hope so...it's part of the MNRs Wildlife management plan

They estimate 400 K deer in Ontario...in 2017 the 'reported' harvest was about 61K... so hunters took out 15% of the population. The I think I read the MNR counts on 20% harvest by hunters annually.

They have also increased numbers of tags in the past to deal with over popualtion....with success !!

As deer populations have increased in recent years, the manager’s toolkit to allow for more responsive harvest management has been expanded to allow for additional and longer hunting seasons and for the opportunity for individual hunters to take several deer. Beginning in 2001, additional deer seals were made available in some WMUs (to take one deer/seal), with WMU specific conditions on firearm type, antlered versus antlerless, and location within a WMU. By 2004, limited numbers of hunters could obtain up to six game seals in specified WMUs. In 2005, most agricultural WMUs in southern Ontario offered additional game seals. This tool has expanded provincial deer harvests by over 20% since it became available in 2001.

[Fox]

I hope so...it's part of the MNRs Wildlife management plan

They estimate 400 K deer in Ontario...in 2017 the 'reported' harvest was about 61K... so hunters took out 15% of the population. The I think I read the MNR counts on 20% harvest by hunters annually.

They have also increased numbers of tags in the past to deal with over popualtion....with success !!

Just so many people talking about the lack of impact by hunters. They started the antlerless deer draw for a reason, the population was miserable. I remember talking to dad when we were out on a groundhog hunt, we just kicked a doe out of the soybeans. He said that when he was a kid there were tons of groundhogs but no deer, you just never saw them. We would have been out hunting about 1999, he would have been talking about 1972 when he was a young teen.

The idea that bears and wolves are destroying the moose population but hunters have no impact or that European Hare numbers are down because of disease and that hunters are doing nothing to the numbers is insane.

[jaycee]

That is why men like " Theodore Roosevelt " and other conservation minded men started working together and set hunting seasons, game quotas/limits and conservation areas as they could see what was beginning to take place

[finsfurfeathers]

Just so many people talking about the lack of impact by hunters.
The idea that bears and wolves are destroying the moose population but hunters have no impact or that European Hare numbers are down because of disease and that hunters are doing nothing to the numbers is insane.

Hunting has an impact however its the only factor that for one reason or another its is self correcting.
Either though regulation or hunters quitting because its not worth the tag/effort.
Weather, Habitat loss and predation are the uncontrollable factors leading too feast or famine for the hunter.

[Fox]

Hunting has an impact however its the only factor that for one reason or another its is self correcting.
Either though regulation or hunters quitting because its not worth the tag/effort.
Weather, Habitat loss and predation are the uncontrollable factors leading too feast or famine for the hunter.

It is not self correcting, you have to change the regulations to change the amount legally allowed to take. There are always those who believe that if they have a doe tag they should take that doe, even if the farm they are on does not have a good enough population for it, the zones are very large and make up a lot of assumptions but it does not mean that the animals are taken from the area of higher population density.

Moose are another example, the population keeps dropping but we still issue blanket calve tags.

[Bo D]

There has to be a balance between the number of does taken and that of bucks. If you stop shooting does and just shoot bucks, the buck to doe ratio becomes out of balance and there's no competition between bucks as to who will breed and you could wind up with a stunted heard. NY State is a prime example...

[finsfurfeathers]

It is not self correcting, you have to change the regulations to change the amount legally allowed to take.

if there is a problem with the regulation it can be changed isn't that the definition of self correcting?
Taking an animal off one farm has no effect on the overall population unless its a high fence operation. Nature abhors a vacuum and if the habitat is good will be filled from an area of high density.

[gonduckin]

The idea that bears and wolves are destroying the moose population but hunters have no impact or that European Hare numbers are down because of disease and that hunters are doing nothing to the numbers is insane.[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for the moose population but as far as jack numbers hunting is not making a dent at all. Fox you have an opinion and that's it, I have been chasing jacks with my dad for 35 years. The number of jack hunters declined long before the jack numbers did. It was not uncommon to see 3-4 crews out in my area every weekend chasing them, nowadays we don't see any. It's not because the population is so low either. Thankfully my dad still has it in him to chase them and I will continue too when he stops, unfortunetly my son won't. I don't know why the population is low but I can tell you this, in 20 years all a jack as to worry about is natural predators and dying of old age.

Tony

[redd foxx]

I don't know why the population is low but I can tell you this, in 20 years all a jack as to worry about is natural predators and dying of old age.

Perhaps habitat loss??We used to hunt farmers field edges particularly where there were split rail fences. Those have started to disappear along with the rabbits.