Cormorants

[redd foxx]

I think Gun Nut has made some good points. Us humans are the ones who have screwed things up more than any other animal. I'll even bet that there are some populations who would refer to some of us as invasive species!!

[zoli 16ga.]

...... Us humans are the ones who have screwed things up more than any other animal......

I would agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

[johnjyb]

I believe that most people do have some valuable input on this thread. Humans have changed the environment more then any other creatures as far as we know, but nature is and has always been about change, that is not going to change.
Some animals however have changed our environment more then we as humans feel they should whether it be our fault or not. For instance rabbits in Australia, Asian Carp and gobies in N.A., and now the overpopulation and expansion of the cormorant just to name a few.
One huge difference is that we as humans can change the balance back in our favor concerning the build-up of these birds as they do adversely affect their own environment if left unchecked and move on to the next area,not unlike a plague of locusts would.
Some are going to like these cull/eradication options, some are not. Oh well. Better to try to control before it is too late.
John

[gbk]

I believe that most people do have some valuable input on this thread. Humans have changed the environment more then any other creatures as far as we know, but nature is and has always been about change, that is not going to change.
Some animals however have changed our environment more then we as humans feel they should whether it be our fault or not. For instance rabbits in Australia, Asian Carp and gobies in N.A., and now the overpopulation and expansion of the cormorant just to name a few.
One huge difference is that we as humans can change the balance back in our favor concerning the build-up of these birds as they do adversely affect their own environment if left unchecked and move on to the next area,not unlike a plague of locusts would.
Some are going to like these cull/eradication options, some are not. Oh well. Better to try to control before it is too late.
John

Well said Johnjyb-best short summary of what is happening and what should be done.
Not challenging or denying our ,very negative impact on the nature around us..........yet thing should be kept in certain checks.

I clearly could not understand one more circumstance-in this topic,and/or related concerns(bear,coyote , wolf,now cormorant protection)-all those bleeding hearts somehow easily and without any guilt disregard the fact that those very species are actually harming-eradicating other species, by them being out of control.Simply by their sheer numbers they impact "others"environment -they need to eat,house somewhere-and that very negatively impacts other species.
So-why worry so "loudly" about one specie-at a cost of another one?
Hypocritical at best.

[zoli 16ga.]

I believe that most people do have some valuable input on this thread. Humans have changed the environment more then any other creatures as far as we know, but nature is and has always been about change, that is not going to change.
Some animals however have changed our environment more then we as humans feel they should whether it be our fault or not. For instance rabbits in Australia, Asian Carp and gobies in N.A., and now the overpopulation and expansion of the cormorant just to name a few.
One huge difference is that we as humans can change the balance back in our favor concerning the build-up of these birds as they do adversely affect their own environment if left unchecked and move on to the next area,not unlike a plague of locusts would.
Some are going to like these cull/eradication options, some are not. Oh well. Better to try to control before it is too late.
John

I agree.

[Gun Nut]

I agree.

Perhaps we only flatter ourselves into believing we have some magical means of regulate a specie through culling. In some cases, it does help bring their numbers in line with their habitats ability to support them, at least that is the hope behind wildlife management. However, when it fails there can be a dramatic turn about, as was witness in northeastern Ontario a few years back. where the winter die off of deer serve to ignite an explosion in the coyote population. The coyotes had it so good. they up their litter numbers, with the result that the deer herd has had something of lack luster recovery. Now, of course, culling the coyotes seems to have gain in popularity, but has had dubious results. What seems to be happening is when you knock off a breeding pair of alpha coyotes, it opens up the way for non-breeding pairs of beta coyotes to start families. I’ve herd that the MNRF has suggested a more effective way to reduce coyote numbers is through disease. Something like mange which progress through the population as a whole. Biological control or if you like germ warfare.
Early I spoke of the extinction of the passenger pigeon, they were shot off as a result of market hunting. They served as an example along with the bison, why there was a need for regulated hunting. However, with the passenger pigeon there was another item that was into play, which came to my attention a year or so ago, some where amid the passenger pigeon’s population explosion a biological switch was thrown. The mating pairs reduce their clutch size, such that they only raised one offspring. In other words their breeding habit changed to ensure a declining population dynamic. It may have been their over population numbers that threw that switch.
What causes throwing of such switches is hard to say. I came across an article the other day, where I read groups of younger humans are contemplating forgoing children. They fear the uncertainties of climate change. As I recall with us baby boomer it was fear of nuclear war, However for us that fear didn’t appear to trigger any biological switches to be thrown, which might of slowed the growth of human population numbers.


You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[Snowwalker]

Gun Nut the massive killing of the bison and little to do with Market hunting, yes there was a market for the meat and hides.

The very unpleasant fact is that one of the main reasons behind the killing off of the bison herds was to limit or remove a major food source for the Natives.

[Gun Nut]

Gun Nut the massive killing of the bison and little to do with Market hunting, yes there was a market for the meat and hides.

The very unpleasant fact is that one of the main reasons behind the killing off of the bison herds was to limit or remove a major food source for the Natives.

I fully agree with you on that one Snowwalker, when the Europeans colonist move westward and want to clear the plains of the indigenous people they did there, what they did everywhere else. They would set up settlement next to indigenous lands. Trespass onto the land held by the indigenous people kill off the wild game. Hence when they had no wild game left for to carry on their traditional indigenous rights, It made it much easier for colonists to coerce them into treating for their lands. The bison were slaughtered for their robes which were shipped east to be manufacture into drive belts to feed a growing industry of steam operated equipment. Apparent the flesh of bison carcasses was left on the plains to rough in the sun. The demise of much of the vast bison herd of the plains was still a convincing argument to be used by a number of concerned hunters to push for an end to market hunting and have some type of wildlife management and a regulated hunt.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[zoli 16ga.]

looks like gun nuts has all the answers. Boy he's smart, and I'm assuming he's a he. Far be it for me to ask why he polutes the world even more to just go out and shoot things becuase he is a gun nut. hypocrite anyone.....

[trimmer21]

I fully agree with you on that one Snowwalker, when the Europeans colonist move westward and want to clear the plains of the indigenous people they did there, what they did everywhere else. They would set up settlement next to indigenous lands. Trespass onto the land held by the indigenous people kill off the wild game. Hence when they had no wild game left for to carry on their traditional indigenous rights, It made it much easier for colonists to coerce them into treating for their lands. The bison were slaughtered for their robes which were shipped east to be manufacture into drive belts to feed a growing industry of steam operated equipment. Apparent the flesh of bison carcasses was left on the plains to rough in the sun. The demise of much of the vast bison herd of the plains was still a convincing argument to be used by a number of concerned hunters to push for an end to market hunting and have some type of wildlife management and a regulated hunt.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

With gratitude to President Theodore Roosevelt who introduced game management tools into law and ended "market" hunting,forever,we fast forward to today where "culls" appear to be necessary in some instances to restore the natural balance. Cormorants appear to be at the top of the list in Ontario.