Firearms as a deterrent

[Jeff Kavanagh]

I do believe that Texas is a concealed carry state...yet today's mass shooting took place there. The idea that some of the citizens may be armed didn't deter this nut.

There is no such thing as a perfect solution. Evil people will always continue to do evil things. I have to doubt weather any of the victums where carrying. If I had to live there, I'd rather carry than not. Better to have it and not need it than the other way around.

[dilly]

Well, setting up gun free zones and having everyone disarmed is akin to creating a shooting range for the bad guys. There's a reason all of these mass shootings occur in gun free spaces. The shooter is safe. You never see a shooter enter a gun store. It's more of the idea that there may be armed people there which deters the incident from happening. Actually if you look up some stats, you can find many incidents where gun crimes or crime in general has been halted just with the suggestion of a firearm there.

I don’t wish to be argumentative Jeff. I used to make the same assertions and still believe mass killers chose “ soft targets “ because they are very cowardly as a rule, but I am starting to doubt an armed citizenry has any effect on these matters. My position seems to be supported by stats too as armed CCW people seem to never engage the killers.

On another note, I have no suggestions on how to stop this either. Unless first response gets really good at immediately killing these a-holes.

[Jeff Kavanagh]

I don’t wish to be argumentative Jeff. I used to make the same assertions and still believe mass killers chose “ soft targets “ because they are very cowardly as a rule, but I am starting to doubt an armed citizenry has any effect on these matters. My position seems to be supported by stats too as armed CCW people seem to never engage the killers.

On another note, I have no suggestions on how to stop this either. Unless first response gets really good at immediately killing these a-holes.

My next question for you then is, if you were down there and something like this started to happen, and you had the option of conceal carry, would you want to be armed or defenceless when the gunman shows up?
I am just thankful I live in an area where this kind of thing is unlikely to happen. Although in the cities like Toronto I don't think this is far away.

[gbk]

Good conversation topic,i wish we can have a beer along the discussion.
Other then that-we do not live there,we do not pay taxes there,we do not vote there-what does it matter what we say or think about Texans?
They are adults and live their life as they think it fits them.

Just saying.

[MikePal]

Although in the cities like Toronto I don't think this is far away.

I guess we have to suck back our preconceived ideas about Toronto...a study released yesterday says it's the safest big city in North America

Toronto is the safest city in North America, according to a new report on cities worldwide, which also ranks the Ontario capital as the sixth safest city overall.

This year’s Safe Cities Index, a report put out by The Economist Intelligence Unit, looked at 60 cities across five different continents. The criteria for scoring was split into four major categories: digital safety, infrastructure, health and personal safety.

The safest city, according to the report, is Tokyo, followed by Singapore, Osaka, Amsterdam and Sydney to round out the top five.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toront...port-1.4573536

Man tough times, when Canada's safest city has such a high Homicide rate:

The murder rate climbed in the latter part of 2015, and jumped in 2016 to 73. In 2017, homicides were down to 65. On November 18, 2018, with Cardinal Licorish, 23, of Ajax shot and killed at an apartment building in the area of Lawrence Avenue and Kingston Road, that death became Toronto's 90th homicide of that year which means the city has broken its homicide record, surpassing the old record of 89 homicides in 1991. A BlogTO post in June reveals that Toronto's homicide rate was higher than in New York City. The 2018 homicide tally included the 10 victims in the Yonge Street van attack and the 2 victims in the Danforth shooting.

[MikePal]

My position seems to be supported by stats too as armed CCW people seem to never engage the killers.

This web site is obviously biased in favour of permits, but as you scroll thru the factual stories about bystanders with a CCW that have intervened, it's clear that it does happen.

https://crimeresearch.org/2019/05/ub...blic-shooting/

One that particularly stands out:

"(The suspect) was confronted by a concerned citizen who saw him running away with the firearm and confronted him and (the suspect) pointed the firearm at him so that concerned citizen took action into his own hands and shot the perpetrator," Amos said. "It's a miracle. That's all you can say."

Good embedded video at link:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bystand...ro-police-say/

[SongDog]

The last shooter in Texas was driving a truck down a road shooting at random people. Drove over 20 miles.

You think citizens are going to stand outside waiting for him if they have CCW incase he comes down their road so they can shoot it out?

The Walmart shooter before that had 50 rd drum mag on an AR10 and started in the parking lot. If you got your CCW pistol and your in the store, you going to confront this psycho?

Many cases where a civilian shoots and kills a criminal with their CCW issued gun either in robbery/break in attempts.


We all know how loud gun fire is, Imagine being indoors and hearing a centerfire rifle going off (likely 30 rds)and the mass chaos that would happen. Most people will run, some will freeze in shock, I bet very few have the training to defend themselves, maybe if your backed in a corner, but I bet most of us would try to get out of harm's way, instead of engaging it.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[canadaman30]

Unfortunately with an armed society, there will always be bad people that commit evil acts against others. There's also unarmed societies that have even bigger problems like Iran and China. Countries where people have lost their rights and live in fear of their so called governments (dictators). More good guys with guns is a good thing imo. Freedom isn't free.

[Gun Nut]

As more and more of this story leaks out, one has to wonder about the routine traffic stop that started this latest Texas shooting rampage. I suspect the shooter got suspicious of the cruiser behind him and pulled a quick left turn without a signal, to either loose the cruiser or confirm that he was being tailed. I have a feeling law enforcement had been notified of the suspect's firing and the employer had become a bit nervous about how he might react. The traffic stop may have been an attempt to head of any impending disaster at the workplace, but instead ended up spreading a rampage over 10 miles of interstate highway. So now they are attempt to figure out what motivate the shooting ???

You don’t stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[MikePal]

I see Texas has taken measures to combat the rise in gun violence in the state........they are 'loosening' gun restrictions;

A series of new firearm laws go into effect in Texas on Sunday, just hours after a shooting left seven people dead in the western part of the state.
The laws will further loosen gun restrictions in a state that's had four of the 10 deadliest mass shootings in modern US history, including the El Paso shooting last month, when a gunman stormed a Walmart and killed 22 people.

Changes listed in article:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/01/us/te...rnd/index.html