Now that we're all sitting "on the nest"

[Tim Tufts]

Took this video earlier this spring. Now that we're waiting for August when we can start working the dogs on wild birds again I thought I'd share.
https://www.facebook.com/frances.tuf...3403154555582/

[Tim Tufts]

Don't know why this appears twice. Tried to correct the spelling in the title and presto. Sorry folks.

[Fenelon]

Working your dogs on wild birds in August is not legal under the migratory bird regulations and I'm sure you are aware of that. The Woodcock season doesn't open until Sept. 15th. ! Hopefully you run into a conservation officer when you're in the field. Game laws aside, I do not understand how you folks can ethically allow your dog to hunt birds that you know are in closed season. You do the same thing in the spring, intentionally working (hunting) birds that are trying to breed and nest. Worst part of this is you're also targeting a species that has suffered a massive continental decline , with the population still in a downward spiral.

[Tim Tufts]

First of all no birds are shot. We work the youngsters on birds until early April using a starters pistol on my farm, which is a licensed shooting preserve.
There's a saying among dog trainers that says, "If you kill a bird the next dog can't point it."

[fishhawk]

That setter has a nice point, especially like the 12 o’clock tail.
Nothing wrong with working a dog on migrating woodcock in the early spring, no harm done. Once there nesting that’s a different story and all the hunters/dog handlers I know and have met back off well before that happens.

[finsfurfeathers]

Working your dogs on wild birds in August is not legal under the migratory bird regulations and I'm sure you are aware of that. The Woodcock season doesn't open until Sept. 15th. ! Hopefully you run into a conservation officer when you're in the field. Game laws aside, I do not understand how you folks can ethically allow your dog to hunt birds that you know are in closed season. You do the same thing in the spring, intentionally working (hunting) birds that are trying to breed and nest. Worst part of this is you're also targeting a species that has suffered a massive continental decline , with the population still in a downward spiral.

Please indicate where it is not legal in the migratory bird act. As far as I can find its only prohibited specifically interfering with eggs and nest of migratory birds and its why dogs are pulled from the field mid April. This is not a new situation and I have not come across one instance of charges laid. Do you have any case law? I participate in the wing survey every year so some research is being done. Limits still 8 a day and in fact they increased the season by the earlier opening too the south east.
Following some on a banding project in the States.

with this much handling can't see how a dog pointing them is that detrimental.

[Sharon]

Working your dogs on wild birds in August is not legal under the migratory bird regulations and I'm sure you are aware of that. The Woodcock season doesn't open until Sept. 15th. ! Hopefully you run into a conservation officer when you're in the field. Game laws aside, I do not understand how you folks can ethically allow your dog to hunt birds that you know are in closed season. You do the same thing in the spring, intentionally working (hunting) birds that are trying to breed and nest. Worst part of this is you're also targeting a species that has suffered a massive continental decline , with the population still in a downward spiral.

Fortunately you are talking to a gentleman who knows more than you ever will about the rules.
See Fins Fur Feather's post for the real rules.

Love that video Tim.

[Fenelon]

[????? Ethics aside, maybe that's part of the issue. The problem is that you folks obviously don't know "the rules" if you're intentionally working your dogs during the closed season, or you're OK with breaking the law. It's plainly spelled out to all who hunt. It's one of the most basic of all rules. All you have to do is pick up a copy of the regulations made under the Migratory Birds Convention Act. Better yet, call a local CO or a federal Game Officer, and ask them if it's OK to work your dog intentionally on Woodcock during closed season.

Re: [COLOR=black]This is directly from the MBCA regulations[COLOR=black]

[COLOR=black]hunt means chase, pursue, worry, follow after or on the trail of, lie in wait for, or attempt in any manner to capture, kill, injure or harass a migratory bird, whether or not the migratory bird is captured, killed or injured; (chasser).

Proving your intent would be a big part of whether the charges stayed in court (similar to a CO charging an angler who is pre-fishing a lake during closed season prior to a big tournament).





UOTE=Sharon;1112629]Fortunately you are talking to a gentleman who knows more than you ever will about the rules.
See Fins Fur Feather's post for the real rules.

Love that video Tim. [/QUOTE]

[Fenelon]

https://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/p...usReport19.pdf
Here's the somber population status data for anyone interested. Data from USGS and Canadian Woodcock surveys since 1968 inception. We've lost 60% of our birds since 1968. The most alarming point is our Eastern flyway leads the pack in decline rate and the %loss per year is now increasing. We're losing another 9% of our remaining birds per decade. This grim news is also mirrored in the last two editions of the Ontario Breeding Bird Atlas.

[finsfurfeathers]

[????? Ethics aside, maybe that's part of the issue. The problem is that you folks obviously don't know "the rules" if you're intentionally working your dogs during the closed season, or you're OK with breaking the law. It's plainly spelled out to all who hunt. It's one of the most basic of all rules. All you have to do is pick up a copy of the regulations made under the Migratory Birds Convention Act. Better yet, call a local CO or a federal Game Officer, and ask them if it's OK to work your dog intentionally on Woodcock during closed season.

Re: [COLOR=black]This is directly from the MBCA regulations[COLOR=black]

[COLOR=black]hunt means chase, pursue, worry, follow after or on the trail of, lie in wait for, or attempt in any manner to capture, kill, injure or harass a migratory bird, whether or not the migratory bird is captured, killed or injured; (chasser).

Proving your intent would be a big part of whether the charges stayed in court (similar to a CO charging an angler who is pre-fishing a lake during closed season prior to a big tournament).





UOTE=Sharon;1112629]Fortunately you are talking to a gentleman who knows more than you ever will about the rules.
See Fins Fur Feather's post for the real rules.

Love that video Tim.

[/QUOTE]

Knowing the rules is part of the game. I believe the definition of hunting does not apply to training your dog as there is no attempt to capture, kill, injure or harass. I believe your interpretation is incorrect. You're more than welcome to contact the MNR yourself with your concern and post the response you get from them.