Bull/cow or calf?

[Species8472]

It would be really nice if people left the calves and maybe setup a bear bait or two, potentially turned it into a week long pike/walleye trip for a year or two along with the bear.

That's what we have been doing. Haven't bother trying to get a moose tag in 5+ years. Like bear better anyways.

Going on an outfitter hunting/fishing trip this year. First time ever. Getting old/lazy.

[Matt86]

Any one that says the moose hunt needs to close I'm sure glad you don't run things,
I know of a least 2 groups that seen in the excess of 30 moose in a week of hunting, one way north and one east central, got one picture of 12 moose in front of 1 person opening day,
People that don't see animals either A) don't hunt the rut or B) wont go way back to the spots that are hard to get to where the moose live and hope to shoot the easy ones next to logging roads or that stand in clear cuts.
Quebec from my experience there frowns on shooting cows and calves even if the tag says you can, Ontario everyone wants to shoot cows and calf.
so 50 percent calves don't make it in a year,
so what if the 5 calves that get shot were the ones that would have made it,
Shooting calves is wrong for the population and if you think its right you are clueless and your the reason what's wrong with the Ontario moose hunt.

[MarkD]

Shooting calves is wrong for the population and if you think its right you are clueless and your the reason what's wrong with the Ontario moose hunt.

Oh, well... Again...
Why do you think that you know better than MNR/OFAH etc staff who spent their lives studying and researching the issue?
I would be glad if they are wrong and you are right.
But really, I got to trust people with education and resources rather than dabbler’s opinion. What do you really think? - that you are smarter than they are or they don’t care about the moose population as much as you do?

[GW11]

I think the laws and regulations surrounding the calf harvest were made long before much of the northern woods was opened up with logging trails.

When I started moose hunting after college (took fish and wildlife tech in college) I was pretty surprised at the contrast between what we were taught about calves and how much success we seemed to have shooting them.

My feeling is that the calf mortality rate of 50% is probably not far from the truth, it's the assumption that calves are so hard to find and shoot that is no longer accurate.

Both sides of this discussion are making fair points. The thinking on calf hunting is antiquated, but assuming hunters will self regulate "because it's wrong to take too many calves" is a problem, because not many people will self regulate if the law allows otherwise.

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[canadaman30]

Sorry to say it but you are listed as living in Mississauga, you are not going hunting so you can eat, you are going hunting so you can kill something and then eat it.

Who are you to judge hunters based on where they live?
Sad...

[Birdbuff]

Oh, well... Again...
Why do you think that you know better than MNR/OFAH etc staff who spent their lives studying and researching the issue?
I would be glad if they are wrong and you are right.
But really, I got to trust people with education and resources rather than dabbler’s opinion. What do you really think? - that you are smarter than they are or they don’t care about the moose population as much as you do?

Please don’t tell me that you think all these organizations and government bodies do this because it’s the right thing to do. It’s all about the benjamins. Money more often than not dictates policy. Let me repeat, policy is not based on studies entirely! Follow the money.


My personal opinion is that we do need to cut out the calf hunt entirely for a good decade. We also need real numbers of First Nations harvests. Tick control and brainworm control needs to be figured out. And as everyone else has said, hunt more bears. Predator control is important.

[gbk]

Any one that says the moose hunt needs to close I'm sure glad you don't run things,
I know of a least 2 groups that seen in the excess of 30 moose in a week of hunting, one way north and one east central, got one picture of 12 moose in front of 1 person opening day,
People that don't see animals either A) don't hunt the rut or B) wont go way back to the spots that are hard to get to where the moose live and hope to shoot the easy ones next to logging roads or that stand in clear cuts.
Quebec from my experience there frowns on shooting cows and calves even if the tag says you can, Ontario everyone wants to shoot cows and calf.
so 50 percent calves don't make it in a year,
so what if the 5 calves that get shot were the ones that would have made it,
Shooting calves is wrong for the population and if you think its right you are clueless and your the reason what's wrong with the Ontario moose hunt.

Matt- I met a local guy,a metis-from Jellicoe.10 years ago.He lived all his life in Beardmore-Jellicoe and Geralton.
We made good friends.

He told me(10 years ago-NOT recently ,when MNRF allowed and Propagated eradication of Moose in WMU 21-just to name one WMU...) that when he was a kid (like late 1980-ish)he would travel from Geralton to Thunder bay and he would EVERY time see 20-30 moose along the way.ONE way.
2009 -when i met him ,he said-if i Go,i see 1 ,maybe 2.

Another - i was in a moose hunitng club at Elk Lake ,late 1990-ish.
The old boys there hunted the area since 1965.With great success.
They said,the moose was crawling there at the time...now,NO GUARANTEE for Group(if we would still have the old ways)


Last year one of my buddies hunted one WMU ,bow-with12 hunters.One end of the WMU.Never saw a moose.
My other buddy hunted the Same WMU,7 hunters.The other end of the WMU.
They saw-videoed-photographed 9 moose(2 monster bulls)and my buddy shot one reasonable bull moose.Bow hunting.

Both smack dab in the rut-one start to mid-one mid to the end.
Both drive in DIY hunts.Both a great mixture of experienced bow AND moose hunters.



There is absolutely true that in remote pockets one will find moose-but we are talking Ontario moose range versus pockets.
And i am not talking Road hunting access-but overall moose access.

The moose is in big trouble thru most of its range in Ontario, and it is due of mismanagement-Including uncontrolled harvest,bear overabundance,easy road access to far areas,wolf overabundance,changing forest management practices,pushing caribou agenda ,ticks,brainworm....You name it.

Definitely controlling all these aspects is a chore-but if it is not done-DO NOT hope for anythig positive in the future.

[blasted_saber]

Maybe we should look at what other provinces do, seems Quebec is quite successful at managing it's Moose Population and I think NB (Not sure don't follow as much there now)

Quebec has less hunters and far more moose to begin with, and nto because of management. Its just a better habitat for moose.

[dilly]

I think the argument that “50% of calves die anyway” is BS. So, why should we shoot them then? Seems counterintuitive to me.

Calves were part of the harvest before because people wanted SOMETHING for the price of their licence. It was about money. Lots of groups would shoot as many calves as they could. They didn’t self regulate.

I also take exception to those who wax poetic about loving the animals. You can have deep respect for the animals you take. In fact, you should have. But, even if you don’t hunt to kill, you have to kill to have hunted. It’s a fact.

[blasted_saber]

Any one that says the moose hunt needs to close I'm sure glad you don't run things,
I know of a least 2 groups that seen in the excess of 30 moose in a week of hunting, one way north and one east central, got one picture of 12 moose in front of 1 person opening day,
People that don't see animals either A) don't hunt the rut or B) wont go way back to the spots that are hard to get to where the moose live and hope to shoot the easy ones next to logging roads or that stand in clear cuts.
Quebec from my experience there frowns on shooting cows and calves even if the tag says you can, Ontario everyone wants to shoot cows and calf.
so 50 percent calves don't make it in a year,
so what if the 5 calves that get shot were the ones that would have made it,
Shooting calves is wrong for the population and if you think its right you are clueless and your the reason what's wrong with the Ontario moose hunt.

Because thats not how statistics works. I can just as easily say "What if the 5 calves that were harvested would have died anyways before breeding?"

And game populations are not managed on an individual level. Theyre managed on a regional level.