Deer cartridges 223 vs 30-30

[canadaman30]

Interesting read on whitetail cartridges. Some may not agree, but nevertheless a good read
https://www.facebook.com/11743516602...7912013766021/

[impact]

Winchester recommends the 223 for deer and so does other manufacturers.
I'm a bang / flop kind of guy so that caliber will never replace my 30-06
I did have a Marlin 336C in 30-30 for a number of years but found it a pain with loading / unloading.
I like my bullets to be 150 grain and up but that is my personal choice.
Too many variables with light bullets especially when twigs get in the way.

In archery, 300 FPS will take deer as well so it is not always about velocity.

[huntnmachine]

Hydrostatic shock is how smaller high speed calibers kill. Roy Weatherby was the first to prove that with the .257 Weatherby Mag using a 100 grain bullet moving at 3500 ft/sec. In slow motion videos the blood vessels would burst from the extreme energy of those speed demons. But in the early days hitting bone with a soft nose bullet would not penetrate the vitals and cause massive meat damage. With todays bullet technology they can handle the hyper velocity and still penetrate heavy bone and still cause ultra hydrostatic shock for quick kills.
Archery works in a completely different but very effective way. Broadheads simply cut everything in there path including blood vessels in a clean and humane way.

Both are excellent means of harvesting game

[Fox]

Both are going to kill the deer if hit in the right spot, but the blood trail on a 30 cal entrance and almost 60 cal exit is going to be significantly different than a 22 cal entrance with a 40 cal exit or no exit, fatty deer will make that difference even more obvious.

The 22LR has killed way more deer than people want to admit and still does.

As for bang flop, nothing is ever 100%, the 3006 with a 180gr SP is not always a bang flop and nor is any other cartridge with the bullet going through the lungs and heart.

[line052]

It kills humans just fine in battle, cant see why it wouldn't kill a deer. Cavitation caused by higher velocities, does cause more damage. One only has to look at heart lung area of shot coyote with a .223/22-250 VMax .

Would I use it, probably not for deer, but it is an option.

[Terrible_E]

7.62x39, that is all.

[Kilo Charlie]

There are now .223 cartridges loaded with deer in mind. I'd hunt with one confidently, but I've been hunting for 45 years and I'm willing to pass up less-than-ideal shots.
I think of the .223 as a choice for an experienced hunter. Yes' it's very low-recoil, so can teach novices to shoot well, but I would give a new nimrod a .243 instead, so that they can take advantage of quartering or head-on shots I might pass on with the .223.
As far as the .30-30 is concerned, it is well proven over the decades, but must be shot well. I believe it is a LOT easier to find and become proficient with, a .223 accurate enough for 200-yard shots than it is to do with a .30-30. Lever rifles, which most .30-30's are, can be accurate enough for longer shots, but really require a scope and practice.

[line052]

great points.

There are now .223 cartridges loaded with deer in mind. I'd hunt with one confidently, but I've been hunting for 45 years and I'm willing to pass up less-than-ideal shots.
I think of the .223 as a choice for an experienced hunter. Yes' it's very low-recoil, so can teach novices to shoot well, but I would give a new nimrod a .243 instead, so that they can take advantage of quartering or head-on shots I might pass on with the .223.
As far as the .30-30 is concerned, it is well proven over the decades, but must be shot well. I believe it is a LOT easier to find and become proficient with, a .223 accurate enough for 200-yard shots than it is to do with a .30-30. Lever rifles, which most .30-30's are, can be accurate enough for longer shots, but really require a scope and practice.

[Fox]

There are now .223 cartridges loaded with deer in mind. I'd hunt with one confidently, but I've been hunting for 45 years and I'm willing to pass up less-than-ideal shots.
I think of the .223 as a choice for an experienced hunter. Yes' it's very low-recoil, so can teach novices to shoot well, but I would give a new nimrod a .243 instead, so that they can take advantage of quartering or head-on shots I might pass on with the .223.
As far as the .30-30 is concerned, it is well proven over the decades, but must be shot well. I believe it is a LOT easier to find and become proficient with, a .223 accurate enough for 200-yard shots than it is to do with a .30-30. Lever rifles, which most .30-30's are, can be accurate enough for longer shots, but really require a scope and practice.

Most of those 223 bullets designed for big game though will not stabilize in most varmint 223 rifles, 75gr .224 bullets need a different twist. I still scratch my head at the 60gr partition bullet, but our deer here are a lot larger than many and in Texas with lighter animals it may work well, I know the 222 was used often for deer back in the day.

[canadaman30]

Most of those 223 bullets designed for big game though will not stabilize in most varmint 223 rifles, 75gr .224 bullets need a different twist. I still scratch my head at the 60gr partition bullet, but our deer here are a lot larger than many and in Texas with lighter animals it may work well, I know the 222 was used often for deer back in the day.

Actually the most deer load offerings for 223 is from 55-64 grains. With stout bullets offered under 65g, twist rate shouldn't be a problem.