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Thread: Who hasn't had a shot at all?

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
    Shunning the unvaccinated may be the wrong approach once everyone who wants the vaccine is immunized. The vaccine is proving to protect the people who take it by lessening symptoms and the severity of the illness. However, the vaccinated may still spread the virus and as symptoms are less you may not even know you were doing it at the time.

    The unvaccinated have knowingly accepted a greater risk of becoming severely ill and dying of COVID. Anti-vaxxer deaths however are no great loss to society providing they are quick about it and do not tie up ICU space for too long.
    Funny how your first paragraph was last year's description of "asymptomatic spread". Now that's something that seems to only happen when vaccinated people get infected.

    Your second paragraph is another feeble attempt at fear mongering.

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  3. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
    Shunning the unvaccinated may be the wrong approach once everyone who wants the vaccine is immunized. The vaccine is proving to protect the people who take it by lessening symptoms and the severity of the illness. However, the vaccinated may still spread the virus and as symptoms are less you may not even know you were doing it at the time.

    The unvaccinated have knowingly accepted a greater risk of becoming severely ill and dying of COVID. Anti-vaxxer deaths however are no great loss to society providing they are quick about it and do not tie up ICU space for too long.
    Why do they need to be quick about it to free up icu space if the vaxxed are so protected?????

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  4. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by GW11 View Post
    Funny how your first paragraph was last year's description of "asymptomatic spread". Now that's something that seems to only happen when vaccinated people get infected.

    Your second paragraph is another feeble attempt at fear mongering.
    Asymptomatic spread is the same this year as last. It is now less of a concern to those who are vaccinated but should be to those who are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowjob View Post
    Why do they need to be quick about it to free up icu space if the vaxxed are so protected?????
    ICUs serve other purposes than catering to anti-vaxxers. They are used to stabilize patients in the aftermath of complicated surgeries. So if you aren't going to get the shots and become infected please don't linger because you are denying an ICU spot to someone more deserving.
    Last edited by Badenoch; July 30th, 2021 at 10:56 AM.

  5. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
    Asymptomatic spread is the same this year as last. It is now less of a concern to those who are vaccinated but should be to those who are not.



    ICUs serve other purposes than catering to anti-vaxxers. They are used to stabilize patients in the aftermath of complicated surgeries. So if you aren't going to get the shots and get sick please don't linger because you are denying an ICU spot to someone more deserving.
    Yes, my mother's best friend spent a fair amount of time in the ICU after her brain aneurysm. This occurred around 3 weeks after her second shot. Her sister was just released from hospital a few days ago (blood clots in her brain) after a 2 week stay but it appears she will be readmitted. She had 2 doses of AZ.

    You're right, hospitals and ICU's are there for more than just anti-vaxxers.

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    Last edited by GW11; July 30th, 2021 at 11:05 AM.
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  6. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
    please don't linger because you are denying an ICU spot to someone more deserving.
    So who is going to make that decision...the 'Health Deity Minister'...HaHa...

  7. #346
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    Who actually takes this person serious when he tells the people, "the vaccines are safe and effective", besides his blind faith followers?...lol
    4296F79D00000578-0-image-a-72_1500823500484.jpg
    Last edited by canadaman30; July 30th, 2021 at 12:51 PM.

  8. #347
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    (Originally Posted by Badenoch
    Shunning the unvaccinated may be the wrong approach once everyone who wants the vaccine is immunized. The vaccine is proving to protect the people who take it by lessening symptoms and the severity of the illness. However, the vaccinated may still spread the virus and as symptoms are less you may not even know you were doing it at the time. )

    Wow, your ignorance is astounding. First you use the word immunized which actually means immune, just so you know. Then you contradict yourself by saying you can still get it, so I guess you're not immune after all. Then you further prove it by saying that asymptomatic people can still be contagious, it's been well proven that asymptomatic people don't have the viral load to have symptoms or be contagious. Not that factual speaking ever matters to you of course.

  9. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadaman30 View Post
    Who actually takes this person serious when he tells the people, "the vaccines are safe and effective", besides his blind faith followers?...lol
    4296F79D00000578-0-image-a-72_1500823500484.jpg
    I got my vaccine and I promise you it had absolutely nothing to do with anything that hat has said

    I’m quite capable of doing my own research and making my own decision.

    Why is it you assume people who got a vaccine give a second thought to Trudeau?

    I get it that it’s completely different than your decision. I respect your decision but clearly you don’t respect mine

  10. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishHog View Post
    I got my vaccine and I promise you it had absolutely nothing to do with anything that hat has said

    I’m quite capable of doing my own research and making my own decision.

    Why is it you assume people who got a vaccine give a second thought to Trudeau?

    I get it that it’s completely different than your decision. I respect your decision but clearly you don’t respect mine
    Your decision to vaccinate is no concern to me. I could care less if you want to be part of a drug experiment that you assume any and all risks

    What I don't respect is others claiming anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers and people not staying home are spreading the virus and filling icu's.

    I've done my research, Seeing I have a better chance of being murdered than dying from covid in Canada, a kevlar vest would protect me more than a experimental drug that's not as advertised
    .Cheers

  11. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty55 View Post
    Wow, your ignorance is astounding. First you use the word immunized which actually means immune, just so you know. Then you contradict yourself by saying you can still get it, so I guess you're not immune after all. Then you further prove it by saying that asymptomatic people can still be contagious, it's been well proven that asymptomatic people don't have the viral load to have symptoms or be contagious. Not that factual speaking ever matters to you of course.
    According to the CDC recent research shows vaccinated people can carry the Delta variant and transmit it. Being vaccinated does not protect the unvaccinated from infection it protects the vaccinated from the more serious affects of COVID-19.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/29/h...nsmission.html

    Behind the Masks, a Mystery: How Often Do the Vaccinated Spread the Virus?

    By Apoorva Mandavilli
    Published July 29, 2021, Updated July 30, 2021, 1:17 p.m. ET

    The recommendation that vaccinated people in some parts of the country dust off their masks was based largely on one troublesome finding, according to Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    New research showed that vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant carry tremendous amounts of the virus in the nose and throat, she said in an email responding to questions from The New York Times.

    The finding contradicts what scientists had observed in vaccinated people infected with previous versions of the virus, who mostly seemed incapable of infecting others.

    That conclusion dealt Americans a heavy blow: People with so-called breakthrough infections — cases that occur despite full vaccination — of the Delta variant may be just as contagious as unvaccinated people, even if they have no symptoms.

    That means fully immunized people with young children, aging parents, or friends and family with weak immune systems will need to renew vigilance, particularly in high-transmission communities. Vaccinated Americans may need to wear masks not just to protect themselves, but everyone in their orbit.


    There are 67,000 new cases per day on average in the United States, as of Thursday. If vaccinated people are transmitting the Delta variant, they may be contributing to the increases — although probably to a far lesser degree than the unvaccinated.

    The C.D.C. has not yet published its data, frustrating experts who want to understand the basis for the change of heart on masks. Four scientists familiar with the research said it was compelling and justified the C.D.C.’s advice that the vaccinated wear masks again in public indoor spaces.

    The research was conducted by people outside the C.D.C., the scientists said, and the agency is working quickly to analyze and publish the results. The agency expects to publish the research on Friday, one official said.

    Some of the research may be related in part to an outbreak in Provincetown, Mass., where Fourth of July festivities have led to 882 cases as of Thursday. Nearly three-quarters of those people were fully vaccinated.

    The agency also has tracked data from the Covid-19 Sports and Society Workgroup, a coalition of professional sports leagues that is testing more than 10,000 people at least daily and sequencing all infections.

    It’s still unclear how common breakthrough infections are and how long the virus persists in the body in those cases. Breakthroughs are rare, and unvaccinated people account for the bulk of virus transmission, Dr. Walensky said.

    Regardless, the data that the C.D.C. is reviewing suggest that even fully immunized people can be unwilling vectors for the virus. “We believe at individual level they might, which is why we updated our recommendation,” Dr. Walensky said in her email to The Times.

    The conclusion also suggests that vaccinated people who are exposed to the virus should get tested, even if they feel fine. (In Britain, vaccinated people who are contacts of a known case are required to isolate for 10 days.)

    The new data do not mean that the vaccines are ineffective. The vaccines still powerfully prevent severe illness and death, as they were meant to, and people with breakthrough infections very rarely end up in a hospital.

    About 97 percent of people hospitalized with Covid-19 are unvaccinated, according to data from the C.D.C. But scientists warned even last year that the vaccines might not completely prevent infection or transmission. (Immunity from natural infection may offer even less protection.)


    Previous versions of the virus rarely broke through the immunization barrier, which prompted the C.D.C. to advise in May that vaccinated people could go mask-free indoors. But the usual rules don’t seem to apply to the Delta variant.

    The variant is twice as contagious as the original virus, and one study suggested that the amount of virus in unvaccinated people infected with Delta might be a thousand times higher than seen in people infected with the original version of the virus. The C.D.C. data support that finding, said one expert familiar with the results.

    Hospitals and medical centers. Many hospitals and major health systems are requiring employees to get the Covid-19 vaccine, citing rising caseloads fueled by the Delta variant and stubbornly low vaccination rates in their communities, even within their work force. In N.Y.C., workers in city-run hospitals and health clinics will be required to get vaccinated or else get tested on a weekly basis.

    Federal employees. President Biden announced that all civilian federal employees must be vaccinated against the coronavirus or be forced to submit to regular testing, social distancing, mask requirements and restrictions on most travel. State workers in New York will face similar restrictions.

    Anecdotes of clusters of breakthrough infections have become increasingly frequent, with groups of vaccinated people reporting sniffles, headache, sore throat, or a loss of taste or smell — symptoms of an infection in the upper respiratory tract.

    But the overwhelming majority do not end up needing intensive medical care, because the immune defenses produced by the vaccine destroy the virus before it can get to the lungs.

    “We’re still going to see a huge, huge, huge impact on severity of disease and hospitalization,” said Michal Tal, an immunologist at Stanford University. “That’s really what the vaccine was made to do.”

    The coronavirus vaccines are injected into muscle, and the antibodies produced in response mostly remain in the blood. Some antibodies may make their way to the nose, the main port of entry for the virus, but not enough to block it.

    “The vaccines — they’re beautiful, they work, they’re amazing,” said Frances Lund, a viral immunologist at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. “But they’re not going to give you that local immunity.”

    When people are exposed to any respiratory pathogen, it may find a foothold in the mucosal lining of the nose — without causing any harm beyond that. “If you walked down the street and swabbed people, you would find people that had viruses in their mucosa who were asymptomatic,” said Dr. Michael Marks, an epidemiologist at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. “Our immune system is mostly fighting these things off most of the time.”

    But the Delta variant seems to flourish in the nose, and its abundance may explain why more people than scientists expected are experiencing breakthrough infections and cold-like symptoms.

    Still, when the virus tries to snake down into the lungs, immune cells in vaccinated people ramp up and rapidly clear the infection before it wreaks much havoc. That means vaccinated people should be infected and contagious for a much shorter period of time than unvaccinated people, Dr. Lund said.

    “But that doesn’t mean that in those first couple of days, when they’re infected, they can’t transmit it to somebody else,” she added.

    To stop the virus right where it enters, some experts have advocated nasal spray vaccines that would prevent the invader from gaining purchase in the upper airway. “Vaccine 1.0 should prevent death and hospitalization. Vaccine 2.0 should prevent transmission,” Dr. Tal said. “We just need another iteration.”

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