The Calf moose discussion

[Fox]

That's been happening for as long as humans have been around! I think there is something else at play here

What is at play is opened up logging roads, ATVs, access to all the property that was not accessible before for the moose to get away from the hunting pressure.

If you go to a cattle operation and tell the farmer they have to take out only the calves and continue their herd they will look at you like you have 2 heads. It is not that calves were shot it is that calves have been open season for so long. It should be managed like every where else, bulls only with a minimum size/age of the rack and cows/calves with a special tag when the population needs adjustment. Pay $15 to get into the draw like you do for an elk and then you can get that bull.

What they have done with these changes is long overdue, hopefully our moose population will come back. Oh, and don't say that you see lots at your hunt camp so the numbers must be fine, the moose population is in real trouble province wide, there are pockets that is it ok but it is hurting overall.

[Sam Menard]

I found another Moose study online titled “ Assessment of the status and viability of a population of moose (Alces alces) at its southern range limit in Ontario”. Both studies can be downloaded at researchgate.net.

[trimmer21]

There can be all the university studies we want,some have a natural bias for any number of reasons,but,at what point do we stop paying attention to "results" and start using some common sense?

[dilly]

When the MNR came out with the selective harvest system back in the 1980’s, they threw out a figure for calf mortality that justified the calf hunt. I don’t remember the percentage that they used but it could have been as high as 40%. Also at that time, they produced an illustration that showed herd growth based on different hunting scenarios e.g. if you shot a cow or if you shot a calf. IIRC, their projections were based on cows having twins at age 4.
Attachment 42053
If we were talking about whitetail deer, we would have more answers as deer have been extensively studied in the USA. Unfortunately moose aren’t studied to the extent that deer are. (part of it is due to their size, population, and the environment where they live). Consequently, the MNR has to rely on studies from other countries (Europe) - where data might not be entirely applicable.

Since 1983, the MNR has learned a few things about moose such as: they are not as productive as once believed, hunter- caused mortality rates shouldn’t exceed 20% if your trying to grow more moose, calf hunting needs to be better managed, bulls aren’t adult-film stars and don’t breed many cows, and aerial surveys aren’t perfect.

EDIT: I found an Ontario study online about calf mortality is central Ontario. The study was carried out by Trent University. Here’s the abstract:
”[COLOR=#333333]Although some populations remain stable, moose (Alces alces) density and distribution have been declining in many areas along the southern edge of their North American distribution. During 2006—2009, we deployed 99 vaginal implant transmitters (VITs) in 86 adult female moose in central Ontario, Canada to assist in locating and radiocollaring neonatal moose calves. We monitored radiocollared calves to estimate calf survival and assess the relative importance of specific causes of death. Calves in the western portion of our study area (WMU49) were exposed to a 6-day general hunting season, whereas calves in the eastern portion of our study area (Algonquin Provincial Park [APP]) were not exposed to hunting. Annual survival for 87 collared calves was greater in the protected area than the harvested area (72.4 ± 6.8% and 55.8 ± 8.3%, respectively) and averaged 63.7 ± 7.1% overall. Predation by wolves (Canis sp.) and American black bears (Ursus americanus) was the dominant cause of death but occurred predominately in APP, whereas other natural mortality agents were 4× more common in WMU49. Only 16% of the collared calves in WMU49 were harvested each year despite a high proportion (approx. 50%) of accessible, public land. Most natural mortality occurred prior to the autumn hunting season such that reductions in natural mortality had little potential to compensate for calf harvest. Overall, calf survival in our study area was moderate to high and our findings suggest predator control or further restrictions of calf hunting in this area is not justified.”

Thanks for the info Sam.

[Sam Menard]

There can be all the university studies we want,some have a natural bias for any number of reasons,but,at what point do we stop paying attention to "results" and start using some common sense?

Many folks reject or ignore research or results for varying reasons such as they don’t understand the information or they believe that the study was too artificial to be be valid or the results are biased to support the researchers (or sponsors) true agenda. I get it.

I tend to be a sponge and look for information from a variety of different sources then try to validate that new knowledge in real world situations. There’s some stuff that you can’t learn on your own, or you can but it takes a very long time. To each his own.

[Birdbuff]

What do we lose by abandoning the calf hunt? Not much. But by continuing it we continue to slow the population growth. It’s a no brainer. Would it hurt anyone to shut it down for 3-5 years as a test?

[gbk]

W. Would it hurt anyone to shut it down for 3-5 years as a test?

The BEST notion for a longest time.
Alas,that would mean that FN could not hunt either ,which means this will never happen, which means ...slowly but surely moose hunt in Ontario will only be for the really rich (fly in to some VERY remote area)......and for the rest of ALL of us, it will be a memory of those good old days.
Shooting calves-no,but othervise my gut tells me one thing-anyone who can go moose hunting,go and hunt,because this all will end rather soon.

[redd foxx]

i think the idea behind having a calf hunt is that the calves have the least chance to make it to adult hood because of predators, winters, etc. adults have already made it to that point. Hunting (as long as it is controlled) will not eliminate ALL the calves just as it won't eliminate all the adults. An adult cow that is left after a calf is shot may have 1 or 2 more calves. A cow shot will not provide any further calves into the population.

[Sam Menard]

What do we lose by abandoning the calf hunt? Not much. But by continuing it we continue to slow the population growth. It’s a no brainer. Would it hurt anyone to shut it down for 3-5 years as a test?

Your point is incomplete. If you really want to grow the herd, shut the entire hunt down. The adult animals are the ones that are making babies today.

[Birdbuff]

Your point is incomplete. If you really want to grow the herd, shut the entire hunt down. The adult animals are the ones that are making babies today.

My point was based on the other comments that many calves won’t over winter the first year due to predation. If this is the case, then why pressure the system more with the ultimate predator (hunters).