The Covid Vaccine Side Effects Thread

[MikePal]

# COVID severe illness (ICU) cases of vaccinated people / TOTAL number of vaccinated people
# COVID severe illness (ICU) cases of unvaccinated people / TOTAL number of unvaccinated people
# Vaccine severe illness (ICU) cases / Total number of vaccinated people

The only number we should be 'MOST' interested in is how many, as a percentage, of those hospitalized are fully vaccinated.
The last I checked it was 34%....1/3 of the all Covid patients are fully vaccinated and the number is growing weekly.

Israel it's over 60% after 9 months...

[MarkB]

The only number we should be 'MOST' interested in is how many, as a percentage, of those hospitalized are fully vaccinated.
The last I checked it was 34%....1/3 of the all Covid patients are fully vaccinated and the number is growing weekly.

Israel it's over 60% after 9 months...

That's your perspective Mike, because you bring your assumption that the vaccine is not effective.

Honestly I don't even think that number you present means anything at all. Let me explain, if you have 30 seconds to read this.
If a country is 100% vaccinated ... how will the ICU cases NOT BE 100% vaccinated .... there's no unvaccinated LEFT to get covid.
What is more important is ... out of 1 million vaccinated people, how many are in ICU ... 0.5, 1, 10, 500, 1000, 10000?? That's all that matters
to show the effectiveness of the vaccine (or not).

My perspective, I think the vaccine is effective ... so I care more about the # vaccinated vs population of vaccinated that are in ICU ...
but to not argue (again) ... I say watch ALL three I propose ... instead of turning a blind eye to data and only looking at part of the picture to
suit your argument ... watch all three ... it will have all the stats both sides of the equation want and need .... vaxx and non-vaxxed alike.

If you choose to ignore the other two ... well, I'm not sure why you would even want to do that ... it's like intentionally not wanting to see
data that can make a difference to people's understanding (and note the third one is % vaccinated that fall ill or die due to getting vaccine ... so in fact
it suits your side of the argument).

[MikePal]

That's your perspective Mike, because you bring your assumption that the vaccine is not effective...

....My perspective, I think the vaccine is effective ...

Sorry, I don't make assumptions, the facts are available....

From the Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-8/fulltext

Between Dec 14, 2020, and Aug 8, 2021, of 4 920 549 individuals assessed for eligibility, we included 3 436 957 (median age 45 years [IQR 29–61]; 1 799 395 [52·4%] female and 1 637 394 [47·6%] male). For fully vaccinated individuals, effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infections was 73% (95% CI 72–74) and against COVID-19-related hospital admissions was 90% (89–92). Effectiveness against infections declined from 88% (95% CI 86–89) during the first month after full vaccination to 47% (43–51) after 5 months. Among sequenced infections, vaccine effectiveness against infections of the delta variant was high during the first month after full vaccination (93% [95% CI 85–97]) but declined to 53% [39–65] after 4 months. Effectiveness against other (non-delta) variants the first month after full vaccination was also high at 97% (95% CI 95–99), but waned to 67% (45–80) at 4–5 months.

Ergo why the only number that is important is how many, fully vaccinated people, are showing up in the hospital...why?? Because you want to know in a room full of the vaccinated, statistically, how many could be carrying the virus..1:10...3:10 ??

[Badenoch]

The only number we should be 'MOST' interested in is how many, as a percentage, of those hospitalized are fully vaccinated.
The last I checked it was 34%....1/3 of the all Covid patients are fully vaccinated and the number is growing weekly.

Israel it's over 60% after 9 months...

It's a fair point. Here are today's numbers.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

In ICU
Unvaccinated 73 (73.7%)
Partially vaccinated (11.1%)
Fully vaccinated 15 (15.2%)

In hospital but not the ICU
Unvaccinated 107 (65.6%)
Partially vaccinated 13 (7.9%)
Fully vaccinated 43 (26.3%)

It should be remembered that while the unvaccinated are the largest percentages in hospital both in ICU and non-ICU they represent less than a quarter of those eligible for vaccination in Ontario. There are fewer of them but they represent a far higher percentage of people needing critical care. Even in Israel the percentage of vaccinated needing care is lower than the percentage of people who are vaccinated.

[MarkB]

Sorry, I don't make assumptions, the facts are available....

From the Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-8/fulltext



Ergo why the only number that is important is how many, fully vaccinated people, are showing up in the hospital...why?? Because you want to know in a room full of the vaccinated, statistically, how many could be carrying the virus..1:10...3:10 ??

Mike, you bring assumptions ... you bring your perspective, your experience. Unless you are willing to state right here to the entire forum that you have never been wrong about anything ever ...

The study you present indicates that the vaccine is effective ... I'm not sure you read the entire thing or understand it. Figure 2 shows two graphs, the top is group A, COVID-19 infections ... as in whether a person expressed symptoms, or was asymptotic. The effectiveness drops from 90% to around 50% in 6 months ... this means people experience more symptoms of sickness over time (sniffles, colds, soar throat ... but still good enough to carry on life normally).

But the bottom graph, group B, is HOSPITALIZATIONS ... as in your sick enough to have to be admitted to a hospital! And here is an excerpt about exactly that!

"Among fully vaccinated individuals of all ages, overall adjusted vaccine effectiveness estimates for COVID-19 hospital admissions were 87% (95% CI 82–91) within 1 month after being fully vaccinated, and 88% (82–92) at 5 months after full vaccination, showing no significant waning"

So, now go on, and tell me the very source YOU provided a link for is wrong, lying ... incorrect ... should be dismissed, whatever.

[MarkB]

It's a fair point. Here are today's numbers.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

In ICU
Unvaccinated 73 (73.7%)
Partially vaccinated (11.1%)
Fully vaccinated 15 (15.2%)

In hospital but not the ICU
Unvaccinated 107 (65.6%)
Partially vaccinated 13 (7.9%)
Fully vaccinated 43 (26.3%)

It should be remembered that while the unvaccinated are the largest percentages in hospital both in ICU and non-ICU they represent less than a quarter of those eligible for vaccination in Ontario. There are fewer of them but they represent a far higher percentage of people needing critical care. Even in Israel the percentage of vaccinated needing care is lower than the percentage of people who are vaccinated.

Exactly ... and now compare 73 unvaccinated in ICU vs. what 2 million unvaccinated people in Ontario (most of which are kids under 12?). That is almost 36 per 1 million.
vs
15 fully vaccinated + 11 partially vaccinated (26 in total) in ICU vs what 12 million vaccinated people in Ontario?? That is 2 per 1 million.

So, I don't think you guys arguing the vaccine isn't effect is a good strategy. It's clear, the vaccine does reduce hospitalizations.

[MikePal]

It should be remembered that while the unvaccinated are the largest percentages in hospital both in ICU and non-ICU they represent less than a quarter of those eligible for vaccination in Ontario.

What should be remembered is the the MSM is still using the entire population for their stats on the unvaccinated.

There is actually very few left. With 8o% of the general population vaccinated then there are only 20% left or 7.6 Million.

BUT of that about, kids under 12 account for 1.2 million that are not eligible to be vaccinated. So in reality there are only about 6.4 million un-vaccinated or about 16% of the population...in all of Canada.

[MikePal]

So, now go on, and tell me the very source YOU provided a link for is wrong, lying ... incorrect ... should be dismissed, whatever.

You don't read well do you..the declining efficacy numbers I quoted are for 'Infections' NOT hospitalizations. Those are two very different things.

And no need for personal insults...it's an indicator that you're losing the debate..

[MarkB]

What should be remembered is the the MSM is still using the entire population for their stats on the unvaccinated.

There is actually very few left. With 8o% of the general population vaccinated then there are only 20% left or 7.6 Million.

BUT of that about, kids under 12 account for 1.2 million that are not eligible to be vaccinated. So in reality there are only about 6.4 million un-vaccinated or about 16% of the population...in all of Canada.

And that makes the numbers even worse for the unvaccinated ... firstly lets assume kids 12 and under are likely not going to get a severe enough case of COVID to need hospitalization. It is well know COVID impacts older people more severely.

So if 75 unvacccinated in hospital and in Ontario let's say only 1 million elligible unvaccinated people ... that is 75 in ICU per million vs 2 per million for vaccinated. 37 TIMES MORE LIKELY to require hospitalization if you are unvaccinated.

[MarkB]

You don't read well do you..the declining efficacy numbers I quoted are for 'Infections' NOT hospitalizations. Those are two very different things.

And no need for personal insults...it's an indicator that you're losing the debate..

Nice try Mike ... you see this is a competition for you ... not a discussion ... you have to win, don't you?

Well here's where you are wrong ... I said MANY, MANY, MANY times all that matters is HOSPITALIZATIONS ... I don't care if there are 100,000 COVID cases a day, if it's just a cold, who CARES??
You need to pull data out that suits your story ... and keep harping on infections ... WHO CARES??? It's a person with sniffles, WHO CARES???

All that matters is hospitalizations ... then you refer to an article that shows efficacy drops for infections over a 6 month period ... that SAME article says the efficacy IMPROVES over 6 months for Hospitalizations (which is exactly my point).

So guess what? Your "indicator" is wrong ... I'm not losing any argument ... in fact, the very paper you source here, PROVES MY VIEWS ARE CORRECT!

Can't wait to see the next post from you ... wonder what twist on words you're gonna use ... because it seems this is a game to you, and you just can't stand to lose this game!