Sighting in trouble.

[Sam Menard]

My guess is the rings. Have you tried shooting on bags and not in the lead sled? A lot of energy put on the gun in a lead sled. I’m thinking the rings could be a weak point. If it didn’t wander as much shooting on bags you might have your answer.

You might be on to something about the Lead Sled. Although I own and use one myself (without issue), you have to wonder where all that recoil energy goes. I’ve heard stories (online) of stocks breaking from using them. Test firing with a sand bag would be cheaper than buying a new scope.

[MihajloSimsic]

You might be on to something about the Lead Sled. Although I own and use one myself (without issue), you have to wonder where all that recoil energy goes. I’ve heard stories (online) of stocks breaking from using them. Test firing with a sand bag would be cheaper than buying a new scope.

Haven't been on in a bit! Tried with a sandbag and with a bipod attached also. Both times the issue persisted.

[MihajloSimsic]

My 85 has a laminate stock, I found the action screws came loose last year, gun shot all over the place.

I ended up blue loctiting the action screws so I don't have to worry again.

But I want to piller bed the stock, I'm worried about overtighting with wood stock and cracking it or something.


So many variables, Is the scope new? Can you try it on a different rifle?

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Where are the action screws located and how would I access them? I have a feeling he should check the tightness of them as well.

[SongDog]

Where are the action screws located and how would I access them? I have a feeling he should check the tightness of them as well.

The two screws on underside of the gun by the trigger guard and magazine port.

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[Fenelon]

Is it a brand new Sako right out of the box, or is it a used gun? If it's a used gun then you don't know the history and the previous owner could have taken it apart . Could have been put back wrong with action not sitting correctly against the recoil lug/block in the stock. Is there evidence/marring that the action screws have been touched? I'd check the action screw torgue settings with a proper gunsmith's torque screwdriver, following Sako's factory instructions for inch pound settings and torque sequence. Some guns are very particular as to which screw gets tightens first. My first guess would be the scope install and/or ring brand. I'd remove the scope and completely redo it - bases in with a gunsmith's alignment rod, then incremental torquing of base and ring screws with proper torque screwdriver.I use blue locktite on the base and ring screws. Make sure you torque to recomended settings suggested by the base/ring manufacturer. I make sure all my screws are uniformly torqued within 2inch pounds of each other. If you don't want to do this yourself, then take it to a good gunsmith to have it done. A good one will probably lapp your rings as well. I'd advise you don't use the gunsmith at the popular gun shop on Hwy 11 by Orillia!

[sharps4570]

Last year my dad picked up a .338 lapua Sako 85 long range and put a Zeis scope on it.
After a few attempts and ~45 shots we keep chasing the zero at about a 3" group at only 100 yards even on the Lead sled.


All the screws and bolts on the scope are tight and it's properly seated. We're definitely not bad shots and we used a lead sled with the same problem so I'm seriously doubting it's user error. We tried different ammo as well with the same issue.


Any guesses on what might be the issue and anyone have similar experiences? I'd expect a top of the line gun and scope with ammo that's $10/round to perform MUCH better.

I take it that might be a new rifle? Do you reload too or just use factory ammo exclusively?

As already suggested by others here, I'm afraid in your scenario, there would be a need to patiently re-examine each concerned variable. At times, albeit rare, even brand name products may have defect from the factory that had slipped past QC.

Variables (high level):

- Ammo
______________________________
- Mounts (appropriate rings/bases)
- Optics
- Proper installation of above
______________________________
- Barreled action/stock relationship
- Action screws (appropriate torques)
- Bore/Crown
______________________________
- Shooter

Occasionally, one may be fortunate enough to pinpoint the issue quickly. However, more often than not, one is left with no alternative other than follow the slower painstaking route via step-by-step process of elimination.

It may also be a good idea to determine POIs (group integrity) initially at perhaps 25m and/or 50m to see what results are obtained and then move out again to 100m.

You did mention trying different ammo. On multiple occasions, more ordinarily, I've found simply tweaking ammo brand/weight immediately tightened the group.

Not really apples to apples scenario comparison, anyway FWIW, few weeks ago, friend of mine needed to zero a Sako S20 300WM. He tried different factory brand/weight and eventually found what worked best in his rifle. I suppose he was lucky in that instance.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

Target paper on left is 180gr Sako ammo ....

[sharps4570]

Yeah that's the tough part. However a .338 shouldn't be opening up that much just because of ammo. It's not exactly a rifled shotgun where you have to go through a dozen different types of slugs.

Rifles are no exception in this case - it's a very common issue .....

[MihajloSimsic]

UPDATE

To answer some questions yes it is a brand new gun with only around 55 shots through it now. We shot the rifle again today with a new $500 Vortex scope. The groups were tighter at around 1.5" at 100 yards as opposed to the 3" groups at 100 yards with the $2000 Zeiss scope. Still definitely not a desirable group though. For both times we shot $10/rd 285gr match ammo and $7/rd 250gr hornady ammo. Groups between the two were the same except the 285gr shoots 3" low compared to the 250gr

[Fenelon]

How many inch pounds are you torquing your base and ring screws to? What brand and part number are your rings and your base? Are you using a gunsmith's torque screwdriver to ensure that your screws are being tightened uniformly and at correct max torque setting? I would expect much better than 1.5 MOA for any Sako or Tikka rifle. I've owned 3 Sakos and 4 Tikkas. All shot significantly better than MOA out of the box with commercial store bought ammo. My latest .243 Tikka shoots, using a 4X14 Nikon scope, .67MOA at 100yds and .56 MOA at 200yds !. using store bought Hornady ammo, shooting off a home made bench that sits on concrete sono tubes, using a bag of bird seed as a rest. Your Sako should be doing better than 1.5 MOA.

[MihajloSimsic]

How many inch pounds are you torquing your base and ring screws to? What brand and part number are your rings and your base? Are you using a gunsmith's torque screwdriver to ensure that your screws are being tightened uniformly and at correct max torque setting? I would expect much better than 1.5 MOA for any Sako or Tikka rifle. I've owned 3 Sakos and 4 Tikkas. All shot significantly better than MOA out of the box with commercial store bought ammo. My latest .243 Tikka shoots, using a 4X14 Nikon scope, .67MOA at 100yds and .56 MOA at 200yds !. using store bought Hornady ammo, shooting off a home made bench that sits on concrete sono tubes, using a bag of bird seed as a rest. Your Sako should be doing better than 1.5 MOA.

We're going to go to a gunsmith to take a look at the torque of the scope screws and the action screws as we're not too sure what exactly the specs are supposed to be.
However there are no loose screws at all on the rings and we make sure they're tight, not "strip the screw" tight, but definitely tight. We installed it the same way we installed all our other scopes which we never had any issues with.

So far I've eliminated the possibility of shooter error as both me and my dad have shot it with the same results and we're stacking shots on top of eachother with our other rifles.
I'm also just super curious as to why the much cheaper vortex scope worked so much better than a top of the line Zeiss scope 4x it's price and we installed them both the exact same way. Any ideas?