Ontario gunsmith shot and killed by police

[GloHole]

Well I believe that police officers today are not the same cut as police officers 30 years ago. Back then there were minimum standards for practical things like height and weight, I find officers today are not well trained in either the law and they do not have any empathy.
But the policing environment is also very different with everyone having access to 911 and the volume of calls increasing and the complexities of policing a multi cultural society. Its simply a much more difficult job.

In relation to peacefully stating your opinion without punishment the exact opposite is true. Thirty years ago the little demonstration on Parliament Hill would not have happened. A Chief of Police would get his marching orders from above, would know that he was backed up and the riot squad would be sent in probably the very first day. Everybody would be arrested and locked up for breach of the peace and most would smarten up right away.

30 years ago the government wouldn't have gotten away with what they've been doing. According to you and Sir Robert Borden the Chief of Police didn't take orders from politicians or are you referring to someone else above?

[gbk]

I would say the witness was handcuffed for safety reason's for the officers involved and thus was detained as part of the search process. I have been away from the street a long time, but with the proliferation of weapons today especially guns and it being a gun shop, seems pretty prudent. Most often on the dozens of search warrants I have been involved in everybody inside a searched premises would have been cuffed, again for safety reasons, to prevent loss of evidence. Places that are searched generally do not contain nice people and depending on where you are searching, places like a good crack house, you might end up with many arrest's not even associated with the actual search warrant.
People inside wanted on bench warrants from other area's or jurisdictions, stolen property...

Could also be that the witness was also the original informant and handcuffing him made it look good?

Appreciate the feedback

[fratri]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...ce-allege.html

The heading is misleading as the first sentence in the story starts off with

Toronto police allege the gun used to kill a 16-year-old boy in Scarborough last summer was traced back to Ontario gunsmith Rodger Kotanko — police sources told the Star.

[rick_iles]

The heading is misleading as the first sentence in the story starts off with

Toronto police allege the gun used to kill a 16-year-old boy in Scarborough last summer was traced back to Ontario gunsmith Rodger Kotanko — police sources told the Star.

Not when you know what “allege” means in that context..

[trimmer21]

Police are alleging that the guns were planed down by Kotanko,but,that still remains to be seen. There's more than a couple of ways those guns may have been well out of Roger's hands where someone else removed the numbers. Any kid with access to a high school milling machine could have done it. Rocket science it's not. Given the man's stellar reputation,there's several other ways this investigation could have been handled without a dynamic entry with someone getting killed. The operation in int's entirety leaves a lot of room for head scratching. Upper command needs to take a real long hard look at how the investigation proceeded and how,why and more importantly who deemed this tactic to be required.

[johnjyb]

I must have missed that post. I haven’t seen anyone blaming anyone here. But, carry on….like the song says…”haters gonna hate”

And, like ex LEOs say if you do not blindly follow the edicts of the blue line without question then you are labelled an anti and a hater and cast aside.
Do not question the process or results, we know what is best for you.
John

[rick_iles]

Police are alleging that the guns were planed down by Kotanko,but,that still remains to be seen. There's more than a couple of ways those guns may have been well out of Roger's hands where someone else removed the numbers. Any kid with access to a high school milling machine could have done it. Rocket science it's not. Given the man's stellar reputation,there's several other ways this investigation could have been handled without a dynamic entry with someone getting killed. The operation in int's entirety leaves a lot of room for head scratching. Upper command needs to take a real long hard look at how the investigation proceeded and how,why and more importantly who deemed this tactic to be required.

There are always better ways of doing things, with the benefit of hindsight. How do you explain the fact that the guns with ser.#s removed were still registered to his business. Also, do you actually know what a dynamic entry is ? This entry was certainly not that….still lots of questions that unfortunately, will never be answered…

[Sam Menard]

And, like ex LEOs say if you do not blindly follow the edicts of the blue line without question then you are labelled an anti and a hater and cast aside.
Do not question the process or results, we know what is best for you.
John

It’s clear that you’ve rejected the SIU’s findings. Can you share evidence that supports that the SIU is wrong? I’m just trying to understand your position and whether I’ve missed something. Thanks.

[Badenoch]

Here's the family's response.

https://www.simcoereformer.ca/news/l...less-negligent

Kotanko family questions findings of SIU probe
Lawyer says raid was 'reckless,’ 'negligent’

Author of the article: Monte Sonnenberg
Publishing date: Mar 08, 2022

PORT RYERSE – Family and friends of Rodger Kotanko gathered Tuesday outside the home of the Norfolk County gunsmith to question a report by the Special Investigations Unit that found no police wrongdoing in the fatal shooting last November of the 70-year-old man.

“This raid was reckless and negligent from the planning to the execution,” said Simcoe lawyer Michael Smitiuch, speaking on behalf of the Kotanko family. “This could’ve been done completely different.”

Smitiuch has filed a $23-million wrongful death lawsuit on behalf of the family.

“From a civil standpoint, we believe we are on solid ground,” he said.

None of the allegations shared at Tuesday’s news conference has been tested in court.

Smitiuch said that he still doesn’t know the identity of a customer who was in Kotanko’s workshop on Nov. 3 when the gunsmith was shot and killed by police but that – to the best of his knowledge – he was a legitimate customer who needed a repair to a handgun.

As the matter is litigated, Smitiuch said he is confident the identity of the customer, as well as that of the Toronto police officer who killed Kotanko, will come out.

“The evidence that has come to light is even more concerning than we first thought and supports our allegation of negligence in our lawsuit.”

Smitiuch said it is especially concerning that Toronto police raided Kotanko’s workshop, with guns drawn, in the presence of a customer who had nothing to do with their criminal investigation.

Jeff Kotanko – brother of the deceased and an employee of Kotanko’s gun business – said the family is interested in speaking to the customer but has been unsuccessful so far because he has gone into hiding.

“He’s scared for his life,” Kotanko said. “He hasn’t gone home yet. The cops know where he lives and that he’s a gun owner. We can’t get a straight answer out of him because he’s in hiding.”

In a report last week, Ontario’s Special Investigations Unit exonerated police of wrongdoing in connection with Kotanko’s death.

SIU director Joseph Martino said Toronto police acted after seizing two handguns connected to two separate crimes in Thunder Bay and Toronto. The serial numbers on both weapons had been ground off but police recovered them through deep forensic analysis. According to records, Toronto police concluded Kotanko was the last registered legal owner of the weapons.

One gun was linked to the shooting death last year of a 15-year-old Scarborough boy.

According to witness testimony – including that of the customer — the SIU reported that Kotanko picked up an unloaded, partially assembled pistol he was repairing and pointed it at police as they entered his shop and ordered him to surrender. The SIU reports Kotanko was shot four times in the head, torso and hand.

During Tuesday’s news conference, Jeff Kotanko said his brother was shot in both hands, suggesting a defensive posture at the time of the confrontation.

This wasn’t the only deviation from the SIU report to emerge from Tuesday’s event.

The SIU reports that Jessie Kotanko – wife of the deceased and a witness to the events of Nov. 3 — was “not interviewed.” However, Kotanko’s sister, Suzanne Kantor, said Jessie, who is of Chinese heritage and not fluent in English, provided an account to the SIU of the event that was professionally translated from her native Cantonese.

Kantor said that, in the transcription, Jessie said that a “young, big police officer who had gone into the shop holding a handgun came out of the shop” uttering profanities.

Other highlights from Tuesday’s news conference include:

• Smitiuch said Toronto police confirmed to him the day he filed a lawsuit on behalf of the Kotanko family in mid-January that they confiscated more than $20,000 in cash from Kotanko’s workshop after he died. Smitiuch said the money was derived from the sale of legal firearms at a public auction.

• Smitiuch said there is no video of the events inside Kotanko’s workshop because members of Toronto’s guns and gang unit — unlike other police officers — do not wear body cameras.

• Smitiuch said there will be a coroner’s inquest into Kotanko’s death. Smitiuch expects a thorough airing of the facts regarding the Nov. 3 incident will take place during this proceeding.

• Jeff Kotanko said his brother was a renowned gunsmith whose handmade pistols commanded as much as $7,000 apiece. He said there was a waiting list of legal customers wishing to obtain one of his handguns. He said it makes no sense that his brother would sell his product on the black market to buyers at a fraction of the legal retail price.

[trimmer21]

There are always better ways of doing things, with the benefit of hindsight. How do you explain the fact that the guns with ser.#s removed were still registered to his business. Also, do you actually know what a dynamic entry is ? This entry was certainly not that….still lots of questions that unfortunately, will never be answered…

I'm well aware of how "dynamic" entries are conducted from past service. I'm also aware that it wasn't a full blown tactical team operation or there's no doubt in my mind there would have been an entirely different outcome by it's very nature and Kotanko would still be with us to offer explanations,at least. This thing was a hot mess and we need answers,there's no doubt in my mind of that,either.