Ontario gunsmith shot and killed by police

[Gilroy]

And, like ex LEOs say if you do not blindly follow the edicts of the blue line without question then you are labelled an anti and a hater and cast aside.
Do not question the process or results, we know what is best for you.
John

Not sure what you are basing these sentences on, I think we have given you a balanced opinion based on all that we currently know, if you have some inside information you would like to share go ahead.

[rick_iles]

I'm well aware of how "dynamic" entries are conducted from past service. I'm also aware that it wasn't a full blown tactical team operation or there's no doubt in my mind there would have been an entirely different outcome by it's very nature and Kotanko would still be with us to offer explanations,at least. This thing was a hot mess and we need answers,there's no doubt in my mind of that,either.

You are the one that posted this was a dynamic entry….
This thing is a “hot mess”, because of the outcome. I bet that not one officer there expected him to grab a gun and turn it towards them, especially when they identified themselves, several times, and ordered the occupants to put their hands up ! The CW had no problem understanding what was happening, and complied. Had Kotanko not grabbed a gun, the outcome would not be discussed here. Things can and do go sideways when executing warrants. It’s very easy to sit back after the fact and dissect what police did or didn’t do right ! That’s one reason for a debrief after the operation. You should know better !

[trimmer21]

You are the one that posted this was a dynamic entry….
This thing is a “hot mess”, because of the outcome. I bet that not one officer there expected him to grab a gun and turn it towards them, especially when they identified themselves, several times, and ordered the occupants to put their hands up ! The CW had no problem understanding what was happening, and complied. Had Kotanko not grabbed a gun, the outcome would not be discussed here. Things can and do go sideways when executing warrants. It’s very easy to sit back after the fact and dissect what police did or didn’t do right ! That’s one reason for a debrief after the operation. You should know better !

Yes sir,I DO know better. While I agree with your assertion that things go sideways during warrant searches from past experience,the heavy-handed approach seems to have caused more problems than it solved.

[johnjyb]

Not sure what you are basing these sentences on, I think we have given you a balanced opinion based on all that we currently know, if you have some inside information you would like to share go ahead.

Hi Gilroy
I have a problem with being labeled a hater by someone who doesn't know me except online for questioning what I feel was a failure by TPS in their actions to safely question an individual as well as the location they chose to do it.
John

[Gilroy]

Hi Gilroy
I have a problem with being labeled a hater by someone who doesn't know me except online for questioning what I feel was a failure by TPS in their actions to safely question an individual as well as the location they chose to do it.
John

I did not label you a hater even although in your past posts you have decided to speak for most ex LEO's and have made many statements that are inflammatory like suggesting the police executed this man.

The location for questioning the man would of course be the location of the search warrant, one of the purposes of the warrant was to search for and seize certain items. One of the main concerts of the police is the disposal of evidence, that is why the element of surprise is important.

We are being given a narrative by the lawyer for the deceased man, the evidence they are putting forth is that the victim was seated in a swivel chair with his back to the door when the police entered, he swung around with the gun in his hand. But at the same time they are saying this, they are also saying they have not heard from the main civilian witness in the shop the customer?

[Badenoch]

We are being given a narrative by the lawyer for the deceased man, the evidence they are putting forth is that the victim was seated in a swivel chair with his back to the door when the police entered, he swung around with the gun in his hand. But at the same time they are saying this, they are also saying they have not heard from the main civilian witness in the shop the customer?

Not only did he swing around with a gun in his hand he picked it up off the bench according to evidence provided by the customer and the witness officer.

https://siu.on.ca/en/directors_repor....php?drid=1856

Within seconds of their entry, he reached with his right hand towards the workbench, retrieved CW #2’s firearm, and turned with it in the officers’ direction as they yelled at him to “drop the gun”.

But if one has an unshakeable belief that witnesses are subject to "coercion," that the "investigation result was expected," that all LEOs, past and present, "blindly follow the edicts of the blue line" and that a tragic but justifiable shooting is an "execution" no amount of evidence to the contrary will change his views.

[greatwhite]

Has the witness come forth and made any statement?

[rick_iles]

Has the witness come forth and made any statement?

He was interviewed and gave a statement to SIU investigators.

[finsfurfeathers]

The length of time is frustrating but the SIU investigations are thorough and detailed. Some of the timing such as ballistic tests and laboratory analysis would be beyond their control. Here is a link to a report released last week from an incident in September that gives an idea on the detail that goes into their investigations. I would expect the Kotanko matter to be more complex than this one.

https://siu.on.ca/en/directors_repor....php?drid=1772

Has the witness come forth and made any statement?

Can read the report yourself with the link provided

[Badenoch]

Can read the report yourself with the link provided

That link leads to another case. The one below is for the Kotanko incident.

https://siu.on.ca/en/directors_repor....php?drid=1856

The civilian witness gave evidence to the SIU. He is under no obligation to discuss the events unless he is called before an inquest or civil trial.