Our home ON native land

[Gun Nut]

Although the words to the anthem have been changed throughout it's course, all the changes were done through parliament. I don't doubt that if someone approached parliament about making an official change, it would happen. Until then, sing the official words, or don't sing at all. After all, the singer is representing all Canadians, and this should not be used as a personal vehicle to promote their agenda.

While I believe that indigineous kids were subject to abuse and neglect at the hands of their European reformers, it seems that the narrative has become one sided regarding the burial grounds that keep making the news. This article describes what was known before the woke media jumped on the story and sensationalized it.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/the...-school-graves


What irritates me about this native vs non-native arguement, is the portrayal of first nations people as being a peaceful, happy go lucky group. While this may have been the case in some instances, it certainly wasn't in others. Some tribes were behaving the same way some Europeans were, before their arrival. The slave trade among indigenous tribes was booming before the arrival of the white man.

https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blog...s-their-slaves

And, genocide wasn't something that was only carried out by whites. Native groups had been fighting amongst themselves for years, with the goal being to plunder, loot, and eradicate the opposition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Wars

The question that needs to have an answer is, how long does this reconcilation have to go on before it can be put to rest, or can it ever?

What set me back a bit, wasn't exactly any plundering or slavery, but in an historical recounting of a soup served by an indigenous brave He was dishing it out for a colonist ally, following a skirmish they won over an adversarial group. A human hand was elevate from the pot, this was enough to discourage the colonist solder, from taking any further part in the meal. Although I was aware that cannibalism was practice amongst the South American indigenous people. This episode detailing it, with the North America indigenous people, kind of throw me.

You don't stop hunting because you grow old. You grow old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[gbk]

Just so nobody misunderstands any of my post…I don’t agree with what the Government or Catholic Church did, I’m not some anti native racist either. My much appreciated hunting, fishing, and trapping mentor has native blood. He would also eco everything I’ve said so far. All I’m saying is if we all have to start paying for our ancestors sins we all in big trouble. Every group of people included.

Do not despair Young man...you shall not be labeled by any ,for the things You said and wrote (straight thinking and being honest, albeit a littlebit naive-yet down to earth person.)
Neither here,nor outside.

What we see happening everywhere is the "pseudo communism" resurrecting ,in another way.
In the olde days ,they sing the Internationale (first,just the ones ,they believed in communism or seen personal benefits = greed ! ...from it)then they made everyone else sing it.
If You did not sing at the end-you may be labeled THE enemy!
Just remember-they said : If You are not with us,You are against us-sounds familiar in 2023?

They sing from the top of their lungs : watch the wording

This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean!
and acted upon erasing the past:-toppling statutes,burning libraries,re writing the history-expelling the non compliants,or simply killing them .

While we are not at the latest stage-killing(phisically at least)yet morally and publicly,many were "killed" already,for daring to say differently.

All this to suit a narrow segment of" unknown beneficiaries",economically,morally , getting them or helping them staying in power.
(Follow the money.......sort of)

At any cost-cost paid by everyone ,regardless of staying on a sides ,or being against it.

All this -supported by great many direct beneficiaries ,then the believers ,peons and grey personalities.They are called even by their own Iconic figure Lenin-the Useful Idiots ( in their own term-see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiotWikipedia).
While Wikipedia mauls on the origin-just ask any reasonable ,knowledgable and honest "impacted"European,where the saying is coming from.
It is sad,and concerning-especially for all the many innocents,or members of the 10th generation of the "accused",paying the price for the crime "defined and legistlated"by them-the benficiaries of the NEW World order.

[trimmer21]

(r) Its all here all you have to do is read it https://www.britannica.com/list/the-...is-confederacy

This does not address or answer any of my questions.

The very term used to define the group does not make sense, as technically they were not native to this land anymore than you or I. The left has always had a problem defining things (they can't even define what a woman is) so pick a lane and try to present a consistent / coherent argument.

Which group was the original? That seems to be the lynchpin for the "colonization was the worst thing ever" crowd. But it's an infinite regress with no foundation (Mohawks can tell the Sioux to leave, but the Hurons can tell the Mohawks to leave, and so on, all the way back to the first men). The claim quickly falls apart.

So it can't simply be a question of who came first, as that is a dead end. The conversation must inevitably wade into the realm of values, and which values are better than others. Is cannibalism, torture, slavery and human sacrifice the pinnacle of human virtue? Or is there something unique about Western (aka Christian) culture that sees each person made in the divine image of God, allowing things to move forward in a way not before seen.

I'm not sure what your link is supposed to prove. That a particular group of natives in a small geographic area entered into a peace treaty with relative success for a certain time? This does not mean they formed the country of Canada, with all that entails. A vision and undertaking of that scope was simply not possible.

People have lived in both peace and war throughout history. People have traded and elected leaders since the dawn of time. Democracy existed all the way back in the 6th century BC. Even animals are able to cooperate within relatively complex social structures.[/QUOTE]

Another "like" button.

[73hunter]

So....history aka The Past is the lesson learned here and now in The Present so as we don't make the same mistakes in The Future ?
As for the OP ? If changing the words to our national anthem is a crime then a whole lot of people are in trouble. Heck ! I'm 66 yrs old and still flub it up on occasion .

Not technically a crime of course, but disrespectful nonetheless. Plenty of respectful discussion here and unlikely that any of the participants have changed their opinions, which is fine. Happy that it stayed respectful so it could continue

[Sharon]

Not technically a crime of course, but disrespectful nonetheless. Plenty of respectful discussion here and unlikely that any of the participants have changed their opinions, which is fine. Happy that it stayed respectful so it could continue

So am I.

To get back to some of the original topic: That would be a good change for the National Anthem, but when asked to sing at an event, you sing the Anthem we are expecting , not your choice.

This will probably get me in trouble, but..... My brother is a guide who lives on Vancouver Island.....big time fisherman , big time game hunter in Alberta.
It drives him crazy how much free fishing and hunting the First Nations people are allowed. I know they deserve special rights, but imagine if you were fishing /hunting there and your small limit is up, while you watch the First Nations people hunt and fish on, often leading to the demise of a species.
He is not a racist , but I can understand his frustration.

[glen]

In the future people will be punished for what they are doing today.

[Bushwhacker]

Some of the arguments in here are very funny and riddled with logical inconsistencies.

The same arguments being used to discredit the claim of the original inhabitants of North America would be scoffed at if applied to Switzerland for example. Why do they get all the best land with the best living conditions, all they did was occupy that space for over a thousand years.

Hey whitey no one is saying you personally did something. Maybe you did and that's why you feel so defensive. At the end of the day life is full of different versions of this one basic lesson; just because it is not your fault does not mean it is not your responsibility.

Our responsibility as citizens is to care for our citizens. We do not live in a zero sum game and giving help to one person does not mean help is being taken away from someone else.

I am seeing vast ignorance of North American history in here, and it is shameful. I am lucky enough that one of my parents has access to photocopies of original documents that are not allowed to leave the National Archives/Library. The personal thoughts and feelings of the people who governed this place were inhumane not by today's standards but the standards of basic human decency. They did not send the beat and brightest to settle this land, they sent who they saw as expendable. We are a nation founded by drunks, theives, murders and, swindlers. There is very little to be proud of in the creation of our nation. Seems like we could at least seek some pride in how we care for our people now.

I am not actually making an argument – I’m simply trying to understand the people who make these claims. From my perspective, they are motivated by self-hatred and tangled up in delusion.

It’s disappointing that so many have been brainwashed and PTSD’d from all the propaganda. They falsely lay real crimes of the late British Empire (which was not Catholic) at the foot of the Catholic Church. They reflexively blame a monolith of “white people” for all the evils of the world, and they get suckered into allowing ridiculous guilt tax to go on unquestioned. This has led to horrible things like CRT in schools and the re-emergence of segregation (non-white safe spaces for students, etc.)

It’s the same with feminism blaming men for all the problems in the world.

It’s a shallow, historically illiterate and completely absurd worldview that deserves to be probed and questioned.

You claim people are ignorant of the history here. Would you like to etch out your argument regarding this?

There is nothing neutral in the world. It’s a constant battle of ideas, some being better than others. Presenting the case that European settlers were all inherently evil and had nothing but a burning desire to carry out genocide against a completely innocent and peaceful group is in itself very extreme, hateful, racist and completely untrue. It’s the same spirit that possess those in our modern era who demand we all just do “politically neutral” things like kneel for BLM, denounce our privilege, mutilate our children and skate around for warm-up with a giant pride flag on our jerseys. The idea that these things are somehow politically neutral is hilarious. They are in fact acts of worship for the new religion of secular liberalism.


If you don't care to elaborate, then let’s bring the thread back on track regarding the OP’s simple observation, which was, as far as I can tell: why do these people (woke leftists) just get to change our anthem because they feel like it?

That is a very good question.

[gbk]

To get back to some of the original topic: That would be a good change for the National Anthem, but when asked to sing at an event, you sing the Anthem we are expecting , not your choice.

This will probably get me in trouble, but..... My brother is a guide who lives on Vancouver Island.....big time fisherman , big time game hunter in Alberta.
It drives him crazy how much free fishing and hunting the First Nations people are allowed. I know they deserve special rights, but imagine if you were fishing /hunting there and your small limit is up, while you watch the First Nations people hunt and fish on, often leading to the demise of a species.
He is not a racist , but I can understand his frustration.

This is where-"Stewards of the land" loses any meaning,and turns into hypocrisy in the eyes of many.

[trimmer21]

By flawed logic,giving a certain segment of society (who also happened to emigrate from Asia over the now-disappeared Bering Sea land bridge thousands of years ago) special treatment and rights over and above the main stream majority does nothing except fuel feelings of hatred and racism. That's where,I believe,we've made a huge error by propagating that concept. It needs to cease,immediately.

[Gilroy]

By flawed logic,giving a certain segment of society (who also happened to emigrate from Asia over the now-disappeared Bering Sea land bridge thousands of years ago) special treatment and rights over and above the main stream majority does nothing except fuel feelings of hatred and racism. That's where,I believe,we've made a huge error by propagating that concept. It needs to cease,immediately.

I do not think the MSM fuels feelings of hatred or fosters racism there only seems to be a segment of society affected in this manner and nothing will change them. The MSM has been excellent about bringing to light all the facts about residential schools and atrocities committed within.

Back on topic a woman singing the national anthem and changing the words may not have been the best thing to do but she was taking a stance important to her.

So far I have not heard a big fuss about this except from the same elements of society who appear to be angry at everything and everyone.

I like the present wording "O
Canada! Our
home
and
native
land! I think this basically acknowledges its native land.