Goodbye Southern Ontario Ruffed Grouse?

[Badenoch]

Last spring in our Wellington County bush lot there was lots of drumming and frequent flushes through the summer. Now nothing. Very discouraging.

[finsfurfeathers]

MNRF's position is that grouse populations are not affected significantly by hunting - that's why the seasons and limits don't change in the face of declining populations. I would tend to agree with the MNR on this. Aside from the possible turkey depredation, other significant predators are hawks - but there is no way MNRF or environment Canada is going to allow anyone to do anything about this, and racoons. The problem is definitely not loss of habitat though. Thousands of acres of prime grouse cover, no birds.

I'll concede that numbers are at a all time low but not as low as some would think. These are different birds and require different tactics if you want to get them. You won't find them standing on the trail wearing a sign "shoot me". Tuesday walked Stella down the trail on leash as wanted to hit a spot where I always hit birds got there turned her loose and found nothing. On the walk back to the jeep let Stella run the bush as I walked back on the trail. The Astro went off with a point alert 80 yards into the bush. Cut towards her just in time to bust a pair of grouse in a raspberry thicket giving no shot. Worked back to the trail where she crossed the trail and went on point and then started trailing. Knew we had a grouse ahead walking so scanned ahead to see if I could spot it. Creeped along 20 yards while the grouse had doubled back hid behind a big oak tree waited for me to pass then flushed keeping the tree between me and it. I hunt both sides of Simcoe. West side has had a 2 bird limit for years now and no real increase in numbers. East side has a 5 bird limit and seeing about the same number of birds. Quiet honestly would love it to drop to a 2 bird limit as currently feel its just a sick joke.

[huntervinni]

It truly is sad when you think about what we once had with regards to grouse and where we are at now. The very unfortunate thing about it all is that it doesn't appear that anybody who can do something about it cares to. The ministry is so preoccupied with the declining moose herd that small game takes a back seat. Even the private sector can't seem to get things done unless its on private land because of all the red tape and all the tree huggers who don't want anyone cutting down trees.
Fenelon I have a cottage in the area's you mentioned you hunted in and that whole area is very mature forest where the last time anything was harvested was probably 100 years ago...lol The ideal grouse habitat is young forest that is 7 or 8 years old and I just don't see that around the places you mentioned. I'm sure Turkeys might have something to do with it as well but the biggest culprit I would say is proper habitat. Further North there may not be Turkeys but there are other predators and the grouse are doing just fine and the main difference is logging......just my 2 cents.

[finsfurfeathers]

It truly is sad when you think about what we once had with regards to grouse and where we are at now. The very unfortunate thing about it all is that it doesn't appear that anybody who can do something about it cares to. The ministry is so preoccupied with the declining moose herd that small game takes a back seat. Even the private sector can't seem to get things done unless its on private land because of all the red tape and all the tree huggers who don't want anyone cutting down trees.
Fenelon I have a cottage in the area's you mentioned you hunted in and that whole area is very mature forest where the last time anything was harvested was probably 100 years ago...lol The ideal grouse habitat is young forest that is 7 or 8 years old and I just don't see that around the places you mentioned. I'm sure Turkeys might have something to do with it as well but the biggest culprit I would say is proper habitat. Further North there may not be Turkeys but there are other predators and the grouse are doing just fine and the main difference is logging......just my 2 cents.

Fortunately there is a county doing some cutting which has created better conditions for birds though its through secondary intentions. In fact they had purchased some private land I had exclusive permission to hunt. Was able to talked to the head forester hoping the plan was to continue to let the abandon pastures/fields be naturally reclaimed by forest. He said no going to plant red and white pine plantation as people want to see trees.

[werner.reiche]

I'll concede that numbers are at a all time low but not as low as some would think. These are different birds and require different tactics if you want to get them. You won't find them standing on the trail wearing a sign "shoot me". Tuesday walked Stella down the trail on leash as wanted to hit a spot where I always hit birds got there turned her loose and found nothing. On the walk back to the jeep let Stella run the bush as I walked back on the trail. The Astro went off with a point alert 80 yards into the bush. Cut towards her just in time to bust a pair of grouse in a raspberry thicket giving no shot. Worked back to the trail where she crossed the trail and went on point and then started trailing. Knew we had a grouse ahead walking so scanned ahead to see if I could spot it. Creeped along 20 yards while the grouse had doubled back hid behind a big oak tree waited for me to pass then flushed keeping the tree between me and it. I hunt both sides of Simcoe. West side has had a 2 bird limit for years now and no real increase in numbers. East side has a 5 bird limit and seeing about the same number of birds. Quiet honestly would love it to drop to a 2 bird limit as currently feel its just a sick joke.

That's more than a bit condescending...

I've been hunting the same areas for 45+ years - and I do know a bit about finding grouse.
I've bought 150 acres 11 years ago and have cut through it heavily in places. The old fields with thick fence rows with wild grapes, apples and haws are still there.
My brother had his ESS out a couple of times as well to places where we would always find birds. One flush each day. That's discouraging.

[Cass]

I'll agree flush counts seem lower than normal but the birds are still out there.

[finsfurfeathers]

That's more than a bit condescending...

Sorry if you took it as such, was not my intention. Not holding myself out as some great bird finder. Those who have hunted with me know I prefer to have my dogs 20-30 yards in front of me and I'll hack them back to keep 'em there. Main reason is I like seeing my dogs work and it works well enough for woodcock, not so much for grouse. If I want to see grouse have to go quiet and let the dogs range. One of the reasons I've gone with an Astro. I believe todays grouse are not the same birds as yesteryears and require a different approach.

[Longears]

Plenty of grouse out there , just keep moving around and you will find them. Just like any other game you have to keep searching and trying!

[Fenelon]

The best indicator of how severe the decline is in my area is the almost total absence of winter budding birds now. Once 4” of snow hits the ground, an easy estimation of grouse abundance begins when the birds go aerial to fill their crops before dark. Early to late nineties - head out to good mixed bush with a good secondary conifer understory. Best when the barometer is dropping and a storm’s on the way. Easy for one person to locate 10 - 30+ birds in under two hours if you know what tree species to focus on. You’d often see family groups of 4 to 7 birds in one tree.
Now you can cover 25+km on a prime “budding” night and not even see a single bird! Bye-bye !

[Fenelon]

I agree with Vinni regarding the lack of traditional forest harvest intensity. Much of the former best pockets of grouse habitat were in areas that had been selectively cut within the previous 10-20 years. Much of Haliburton County was like this 40 years ago. In some cases entire townships (eg. Percy, Harvey and Hindon as examples) were reverted back to early successional states by essentially being almost clearcut. These areas have now succeeded to mid-age forests. You see the affects in big game and fur populations as well. These areas used to be prime deer range country and now they are becoming moose habitat instead. Some of the largest former traditional deer yards no longer exist due to the change in forestry practises. If you're a trapper, you would have noticed that at the same time deer and grouse were declining, fisher expanded their range dramatically to the south of their traditional haunts. They prefer mid to late stage forests, which is what we have now.

https://projectupland.com/hunting-co...ffed-grouse-2/

Looks like we are not alone - check out the above link. The US is in serious trouble as well. Some states are pending listing Ruffed Grouse as Endangered. Seasons are now closed in some states.