Frost Campus

[MeghanOOD]

Fenelon wanted to start a thread; we're troubleshooting why he can't start one on his account.

[Fenelon]

An absolute total FUBAR cluster **** at Fleming was unleashed yesterday. The president has decided to cancel 29 full time programs due to shoddy mismanagement (IMO) of college finances. Sir Sandford Fleming College has been the premier institution in the province of Ontario since 1967 for anyone seeking a career in the field of Natural Resources . Changes occurred at Frost Campus (formerly the School Of Natural Resources in Lindsay) since the new president was hired . A sensible international student cap (number of student seats available) that had existed for five decades was overridden and the college became inundated with international students. Increased tuition fees boosted budgets exponentially and this "new" money was immediately available in that budget year, as apposed to the normal provincial tuition intake that works on a two year budget lag. To the detriment of the college, Fleming has operated on this boosted "easy money" now for at least the past 7-8 years, instead of budgeting using the format that had been used for the past 50 years aka working with what was available from the province. Now the "easy money" has dried up with the province announcing that things have gotten out of hand (eg. Ontario students on waiting lists for programs because the seat has already been filled by an international student who will bring more "instant" money to the college) and an international cap is to reinstated. The college is so overdrawn now, relying on this money, that now it gets to crash. Additional mismanagement also occurred when a flurry of "new" programs were spawned by sabotaging successful existing traditional programs and cherry-picking aspects of the curriculum to create new offerings. Effective now: 29 programs are gone, including the following environmental/Natural Resources programs:

NR Law - the premier program if you are wanting to pursue a career as a Conservation Officer. Approx. 70% of past and present CO's in this province graduated from this program. The standard route of training was to obtain a two year Fish and Wildlife Technician diploma, then take an additional year of NR Law to get your training to become a CO or Fishery/Game Officer. Any student who enrolled two years ago with this as their education/career goal has just been shut down. A big blow to OMNR now and in the future, Litigation? Class action lawsuit? Imagine spending two years of your life and probably $15-20K of your savings to pursue a career goal and it's just been eliminated.

Fish and Wildlife Technology - an additional year of study after obtaining a diploma in the two year FW Technician Program It's gone now. Gone is the opportunity for the graduating or first year FW Technician student to take advantage of the university degree deal - eg. being able to obtain your university degree by getting 50% of your courses granted as equivalencies to fast-track you towards obtaining a degree in addition to a college diploma.
Go to the Fleming site and see the 29 programs that have been cancelled. The Ecosystem Technician and Technology Program has been scrapped. GIS program is gone, etc., etc.
If you have a kid who wants to be a CO or wishes to take an environmental program and go on to get their university degree - I advise you send them to Sault College instead of Fleming now.

[Species8472]

Well that's a drag. My oldest son (30 now) gave up on Ontario a long time ago and moved to BC to persue his forestry options out there.

[fishfood]

I listened to a long podcast recommended by an ex member it's 4 parts called.

"The stange dead of the university"

Explains the policy's brought in by the un yes the un has alot of policy in the education system. In the name of safety or human rights.

We can see their work currently in the protest around different campuses now. As they are essentially building their activist and brought in new mandatory classes.

Kinda interesting as he picks apart the policy's and mandates and what it means.




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[fishfood]

Here is the first part. If anyone is interested
https://youtu.be/Ndl6NrMPeyc?si=b4Q3MELhtED6I-r6

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[Sam Menard]

I graduated from safe in 1981 as a forestry tech. Back in those days, if you wanted a job with the MNR, you needed a diploma from one of the resource management programs. Nowadays, you don’t need anything to get a job as a post secondary education can be a barrier to some people. So now a candidate only needs some knowledge and experience that can be attained by working your way up the ladder.

At ssfc in the ‘80’s there had to be a least 20 classes of forestry students and 4-5 fish and wildlife classes. I wonder what enrolment is now?

[Fenelon]

The most successful students at Fleming (for getting good jobs) were: 1) the ones who came to the college already with a degree, then tagged on two years of college training to get the much-lacking applied practical experience, and 2) the college students who took the third year Technology programs, then took advantage of the university partnerships to fast track their way to a university degree in two years (3rd year of college study would count for half of your university credits). Employers wanted their biggest bang for their buck. Students with both the degree and the diploma always managed to land the best jobs. The president has now just eliminated that pathway for many of the regular intake students by cancelling the third year technology programs. A decade and a half of "program sabotage " occurred, and core environmental programs had their curriculums cherry-picked to remove key objectives and hatch them into "new programs". This was not based on student demand. This must have created provincial "start-up" funding money and assured administrative salary bonuses, but it damaged the key environmental programs. Some programs were so badly predated that three or four "new" programs were hatched to snare new students and access start-up money. The students paid the price. Instead of receiving an education that gave you a broad skill set that enabled you to get a job, you now get narrow skill set training. This seriously limits your job possibilities. If you wanted to get the skill set that was formerly delivered by the core programs, then the college would get more of your time and money by having you spend another 1-2 years to take the splintered courses. The forestry program that existed back in the eighties no longer exists. What you would have received for training and education has now been split into probably five different programs. The third year technology option has been cancelled. Fish and Wildlife had the third year technology program cancelled, and a Conservation Biology Program was created to try to attract more people and money. Before I retired, there were still four sections (classes) of students in the FW Technician Program, (four classes in first year, four classes in second year) and an additional class in the 3rd year Technology Program. Total FW Program enrollment was around 220+/- students. The Natural Resources Law Program has also been axed so there is no longer a Conservation Officer/Game Officer/Fisheries Officer training facility anymore. I guess Sault College will get to pick up the pieces for that. RIP Frost Campus . I was fortunate enough to work there at the height of its glory. It really makes me sad to see what remains now.

[fishfood]

Fenlon
Since you worked in the education system I highly recommend the podcast. Just to see if he has a point maybe you will agree with his reasoning maybe you won't. I do know a carlson tucker video got my buddy of his meds. It's amazing how a far right video can override a shrink that overrode his doctor lol.

As for what I read on this topic one article said it lack of funding. Seems to be an issue all across the board . The feds blames the salaries. They did all get big raises last year 16% well at least the education workers here. Our principal at my kids school is making just under 130 000 last year as he took down all the awards on the walls and 2 teachers left already .
Yet in our regoin ,york region they just passed a few classes with 100% grades in business as they didn't have enough teachers to teach them .
Also the un think tank just got a new position in York region aswell at the un university lol.
The agenda university lol it will work on water ,environmental and climate change.

Things are going to be awhile before they get any rosier lol. It's all a mess.

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