Modifying 10ML-II BP

[Final Flight]

Ok....lets approach this a little bit different. Ed, without any tinkering to your gun, and only playing with loads, what was the best accuracy you achieved at 200 yards. John.

[ET1]

Final Flight

Okay first group out of the box was 2-1/4” at 100yds.
Didn’t know about bore preservative cleaning and had a heck of chore to clean it out after initial firing.
Also learned about sabot indexing and value of a proper load resistance fit obtained with bullet/sabot combination. Got down to just under 2” group. Next came learning about allowing sufficient bore cooling between shots. This got me about 1-1/2” group at 100yds. 200yd group was about 3-1/4” with periodic flyers.

After that modifications were made to 10ML-II and with using knurled bullets shot under an 1” at 100yds and under 2” at 200yds on a decent day’s outing.
Hope this answers your question?

Ed

[Big Jack]

Final Flight

Okay first group out of the box was 2-1/4” at 100yds.
Didn’t know about bore preservative cleaning and had a heck of chore to clean it out after initial firing.
Also learned about sabot indexing and value of a proper load resistance fit obtained with bullet/sabot combination. Got down to just under 2” group. Next came learning about allowing sufficient bore cooling between shots. This got me about 1-1/2” group at 100yds. 200yd group was about 3-1/4” with periodic flyers.

After that modifications were made to 10ML-II and with using knurled bullets shot under an 1” at 100yds and under 2” at 200yds on a decent day’s outing.
Hope this answers your question?

Ed

X2 on what ED said.

At 200 yards mine would shoot 3 inch groups.

I can tell you that 3 inches at 200 yards is what I see many hunting rifles lucky to be able to achieve at that distance.

Some better, many much, much worse.

[Big Jack]

Big Jack

By having what you done to your 10ML-II you have unlocked it’s potential capability.
I too have basically done the same and have enjoyed one shot, one kill results. Bullet placement and knowing its responsive reaction to the velocity you are employing is a key element.

For some reason I never had good results with Sub Bases even though I’ve had good results with some loads using HPH-24 sabots.
I agree loose loads can add to ignition problems especially with smokeless powder.

Everyone wants and expects the best off the shelf for the money they spend. Expecting this from mass produced products is only a desire. In most cases you have to go that extra step to acquire the best a particular product can offer. If you are content with what you get off the shelf then enjoy. If not then some homework and research can unlock the real potential of a product.


Ed

I found with 4759 sub bases did not help at all but with 5744 it made the loads very stable. Also on Cecil's recommendation I stopped compressing the load. Pushing the bullet down to securely stop on top of the load but no seating pressure.

It shot beautifully at 100 yards.

[MikePal]

Okay first group out of the box was 2-1/4” at 100yds.

I'm a little surprised at those results, I have seen better results out of the sub-$300 in-lines (CVA, Traditions ect). I had heard that the Savage was far more accurate.

I can tell you that 3 inches at 200 yards is what I see many hunting rifles lucky to be able to achieve at that distance. Some better, many much, much worse.

It's not a distance a lot of guys have any experience with, I have a 300 yr range here and the guys that come do very poorly even hitting a propane tank at that range. Some of it's rifle/scope but a lot more to do with the shooter.

Come to think of it, I have never tried my ML at that distance....should do it for giggles this year.

[ET1]

X2 on what ED said.

At 200 yards mine would shoot 3 inch groups.

I can tell you that 3 inches at 200 yards is what I see many hunting rifles lucky to be able to achieve at that distance.

Some better, many much, much worse.

Big Jack

My experience at the range revealed the same results with other shooters using a larger caliber of rifle.
Our handicap is bullets with low BC and yet good groups can be had even at 200yds. Where I got an eye opener was when someone with experience handling bigger calibers with stronger recoil shot my 10ML-II and the groups he produced. My shooting form and technique had to be altered to come even close to what another experienced shooter can produce with my 10ML-II. I learned quickly after seeing what was demonstrated to me.


Ed

[Big Jack]

I'm a little surprised at those results, I have seen better results out of the sub-$300 in-lines (CVA, Traditions ect). I had heard that the Savage was far more accurate.



It's not a distance a lot of guys have any experience with, I have a 300 yr range here and the guys that come do very poorly even hitting a propane tank at that range. Some of it's rifle/scope but a lot more to do with the shooter.

Come to think of it, I have never tried my ML at that distance....should do it for giggles this year.

Mike

My first 10 ml would produce .75 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards. Ed just didn't clean the crap out of his at first is all.


Ed - what did your buddy do differently?

[ET1]

Mike Pal

Yes most Savage rifles are good shooters out of the box but can you compare a CF rifle to a muzzle loader for performance when there are many more variables to content with?

Big Jack

Are you referring to shooting form and technique?

First off I did not have a good shouldering grip. He was surprised I wasn’t christened with a scope eye.
Secondly I didn’t have a good follow through after the shot was initiated. Muzzle loader has a slightly longer lock time demanding a good follow through. Also lifting my head too quickly.
Thirdly I wasn’t keeping my stock located exactly in the same place on my front rest. The synthetic stock forearm has a lot of flex the further you go away from the recoil lug. Using a front rest I now place the recoil lug as close as I comfortable can to the front rest.
Fourthly I was grabbing the fore stock with pressured grips that would affect barrel movement under recoil. Now my left hand does not hold the stock when situated on the rest and a carry over for field shooting to just support the stock instead of trying to control the shot with a grip.

As for powder compression I find that adding compression helped. But you need to produce a consistent equal compression. I used to lean on my ramrod for a few seconds but now I use a modified T handle with an adjustable stop point to duplicate seating pressure. By leaving a small gap between T handle and stop point it requires the same loading pressure to close this gap for consistent same compression. Yes there will be spring back that is dictated by amount of existing resistance from load. For different loads the sleeve on the T handle quickly adjusts. This also forces me to always observe my established witness mark.

modified t handle.jpg

Ed

[Big Jack]

Yes that was what I was asking.

I notice a lot of folks tend to lean their thumbs on the edge of the barrel as well and don't realize it. Can make a difference.

[MikePal]

Mike Pal

Yes most Savage rifles are good shooters out of the box but can you compare a CF rifle to a muzzle loader for performance when there are many more variables to content with?

No, I don't think I mentioned CF rifles ED.......I was referring to CVA, Traditions in-line ML's which have are surprisingly accurate right out of the box...with WalMart bullets no less