A Tundra Swan Season In Ontario

[toddc]

why? If the meat is not good , and tough, why kill them?

[Sprite]

what is so big about shooting a swan. i dont see the fun in it. they are a slow flying over sized bird. no challenge and i am sure if canada ever was to pass the law which i highly doubt you will only probably be allowed one per year.
i am in the southern ditstrict and we see maybe a dozen, we see more sandhill cranes in the fall. the spring you will see swans but not in huge numbers .
the most i have seen in a field was 40 swans and the is when the snow melts.
best of luck to ya i cant say i support the choice to even try and get a season but hope it works out for ya,

Seriously? As opposed to shooting Canadas? What's the difference? As waterfowlers, we should be supporting anything to further the sport. Can't say when the Dove season was proposed I felt that I'd ever have use for it, but that doesn't mean I was against it. That's counter intuitive if you ask me.

Kyle, you obviously don't hunt the Lake very often if you haven't seen large numbers of Tundras.

-Nick

[madmike]

It seems like a high effort, low reward proposition to me. I think it's wise to pick and choose your battles and shooting swans for questionable quality meat only to rile up all the anti's doesn't seem worth it. I have enough of them questioning if it's legal for me to harvest geese..."isn't that Canada's National bird???"

Mike

[prcheinrichs]

Hey Buddy Boy... long post, too long; but the one thing I saw repeated was the following comment "PS I have received a request from Dr. S. Petrie (Executive Director, Long Point Waterfowl) not to include his name within the c.c list of my letters regarding this topic."

Dr. Petrie is a very well known and respected waterfowl researcher in Canada, do you care to comment as to why he has requested that his name not be included in you letters?

Of course, by including all those respected names in your 'cc' list, the reader may assume that each and everyone one of them agree with your position, it that correct?

As a reader of the above updates, the only thing that I assume by the cc names is that Jerome has been trying to keep all parties informed of the progress of the proposal.

Thank you Jerome for keeping up the good fight on behalf of all waterfowl hunters.

[bowj]

I cant wait to be able to be able to take a few swans throughout the season mute or trumpeter. I dont believe that the meat would not be edible, as they have a similar diet to geese and puddlers.
People said they would have trouble with a dove hunt and trying to defend to anti's but I personally have not heard any issues. Plus you cant change an anti's viewpoint regardless, these same people will argue against hunting anything.
I commend your commitment and hope that this works out for us waterfowl hunters to have more opportunities to hunt more species like our neighbours to the south.

[TurkeyRookie]

While not something I am personally interested in, or would partake in, I commend your efforts, and as a fellow hunter would have anyone's back in helping expand our opportunities as long as it is ethical and sustainable.

Like Nick said, I also have no interest / use for a Dove hunt, but I supported it.

Good luck.

[Hardcoreducks]

Although I don't very often see tundra swans here in the fall we do see a good bunch in the spring pretty cool to watch. I would imagine having a flock setting into your decoy spread would be an amazing sight to see. I don't think there is any harm in a swan season and if there is interest why not. Good luck

[greatwhite]

My Sentiments exactly. Nicely said.

Seriously? As opposed to shooting Canadas? What's the difference? As waterfowlers, we should be supporting anything to further the sport. Can't say when the Dove season was proposed I felt that I'd ever have use for it, but that doesn't mean I was against it. That's counter intuitive if you ask me.

Kyle, you obviously don't hunt the Lake very often if you haven't seen large numbers of Tundras.

-Nick

[Dead Ringer]

One thing I'll never say about you Jerome is that you lack perseverance.

[Buddy Boy]

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Great White ... a Tundra Swan season will happen ... it is just a matter of time. In fact the USFWS is considering opening up more opportunities to hunt the eastern population (EP) of Tundra Swans that may include the legal harvesting of Trumpeter Swans as their population has nearly doubled every ten years over the last few decades ... more on this under my response to Fenelon. I thank you for your support.

2) Doug ... I agree that this was a long post but I actually made it as brief as I could without being too superficial. Dr. S. Petrie has a different opinion on this issue than I do and I have nothing bad to say about him ... some may agree with him and some may not agree with him. He was the one who suggested to me in January of 2010 to submit a proposal for a Mourning Dove harvest and then provided me with the supporting documentation in August to back up my Proposal for a Mourning Dove Harvest in the Province of Ontario (see my thread on this proposal) which the CWS, MNR, OFAH, Long Point Waterfowl, Delta Waterfowl Foundation and some other individuals supported.

Dr. S. Petrie and Dr. D. Ankney also provided me with some advice regarding the establishment of The Dr. Jerome Katchin Waterfowl Foundation in December of 2010. I personally support the research done by Long Point Waterfowl with an annual financial donation.

The official Long Point Waterfowl (LPW) position regarding my Tundra Swan proposal as expressed at the Long Point Waterfowlers' Association (LPWA) AGM in April of 2011 was "there is no scientific reason not to have a Tundra Swan season but there is no scientific reason to have a Tundra Swan season" ... consequently the LPW position at that time was to consider "socio-political" reasons. However no time was permitted to question the LPW statement at the LPWA AGM which resulted in a rather "heated" e-mail debate (I was in the cc list) after the meeting.

I would like to explain that the reason why "there is no scientific reason to have a Tundra Swan season" is because American waterfowlers have been doing a pretty good job of keeping the EP of Tundra Swans at just over 100,000 birds (still 25% over their management goal) by utilizing their 59% of the 9600 tags as well as our 41% of the 9600 tags currently available. One could argue that "there is no scientific reason to have a duck season" in Cananda because American waterfowlers could easily harvest another 10% to make up for the Canadian duck harvest ... get my point?

Finally nobody should assume what you have suggested ... being on a cc list has never meant that you either agree or disagree with the contents of a letter.

3) Pijetro ... we were told by a reputable wildlife biologist at the Long Point Waterfowlers' Association AGM several years ago that the meat is rather tasty ... especially if it is from a young bird. It is true that the older the bird the tougher the meat ... like any other animal.

4) Jaycee ... you are right but 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year old birds are also good.

5) Diver Duck ... I am an enthusiastic "waterfowler" ... someone who hunts "waterfowl" and "waterfowl" includes ducks, geese and swans. So if you do not support swan hunting then you do not support "waterfowl" hunting ... just duck and goose hunting. That is my humble position.

6) Great White ... thanks again but I was told back in 2010 to expect more oppostion from "hunters" than from non-hunters.

7) Fenelon ... I have been in contact with The Trumpeter Swan Society regarding my Tundra Swan proposal and the CWS Tundra Swan Season Assessment (please read this thread). They are not opposed to Tundra Swan hunting and the actual incidental legal harvest of Trumpeter Swans (TRSW) is rather small. The current limit during the Western Population (WP) Tundra Swan season is 5 TRSW for Utah and 5 TRSW for Nevada with an annual average of only about 3 TRSW being taken in total for both states. The CWS Tundra Swan Season Assessment has indicated that the Trumpeter Swan population in this area of the continent has increased by 135% over the last five (5) years and is now sustainable.

Please remember that the native people of Canada may hunt Tundra Swans at anytime of the year without any bag limits and that policy also pertains to Trumpeter Swans. The CWS could have Long Point Waterfowl provide a course in "species recognition" prior to being issued a Tundra Swan tag to hunt in Ontario ... an option to consider.

As for the Mute Swan (MUSW) issue ... Dr. S. Petrie suggested to me in January of 2010 during my first meeting with him regarding a proposal for a Tundra Swan season to focus on the removal of the Mute Swan from the List of Protected Species. I subsequently (after reading all of the documentation that he had provided to me) submitted my Proposal to Removal the Mute Swan from the List of Protected Species (see my thread on this proposal). This proposal was supported by the Ontario Waterfowl Advisory Committee (OWAC) in November of 2010 and the CWS started to look into the idea. Last week I was informed by a Delta Waterfowl representative that the CWS and the MNR are currently in discussions regarding this proposal.

8) Mojo Stick ... the Tundra Swan harvest would be a limited (tag only) harvest just like the Wild Turkey harvest is. There are plenty of Tundra Swans from Long Point to Lake St. Claire and the season would probably not be open in areas or at times when Trumpeter Swans are migrating ... an option used in some states to reduce the potential incidental harvest of a Trumpeter Swan.

Have some patience and wait for a limited Sandhill Crane season in the future that I will financially support after we implement a Tundra Swan season.

9) Todd C ... an old bird will have tough meat like any other animal so take a young one (they will be whitish grey in colour) or an adult (all white) and cook it like a Canada Goose. I heard that the meat from Snow Geese is "worthless" but we hunt and eat them ... depends upon how you cook them.

10) Sprite ... I can always count on your "level headed" comments ... thank you for your support.

11) Mad Mike ... "high effort - low reward" sounds like you are talking about "waterfowling" to me and the meat is "tasty to tough" depending upon the age of the bird. Dr. S. Petrie has stated (Simcoe Reformer) that about 10% of non-hunters may object to a Tundra Swan season.

12) Prc Heinrichs ... you are exactly right ... I was keeping them informed and nothing more. Thank you for your support.

13) Bowj ... this would be a Tundra Swan (TUSW) season and not a general swan season. It would not include the Trumpeter Swan (TRSW) or the Mute Swan (MUSW). When (not if) the Mute Swan is eventually removed from the List of Protected Species there will not be a "season" for them as they will be treated like crows with no "season" and no limits. Thank you for your support.

I read an article in the OOD magazine that (according to Dr. S. Petrie) there was apparently only one letter opposing the proposed Mourning Dove season.

14) Turkey Rookie ... it would be an option that you would have. Thank you for your support.

15) Hard Core Ducks ... nice goose ... thank you for your support.

16) Great White ... that is why Delta Waterfowl supported the proposed Mourning Dove season.

17) Dead Ringer ... thank you.

I thank all of you for your comments and questions remembering that we may disagree on this sensitive issue.

Sincerely,

Jerome