Hunting Retriever Clubs

[Sharon]

Wow. 114 dogs entered in the 2014 Grand Championship in the USA. Wonderful that there is such interest.

Maybe a retriever person can explain what is required in the HRC. How is it different from the CKC retriever trials?

http://www.fourstateshrc.com/grand.htm

[ebenezer]

Sharon , if you are refering to the Hunting Retriever Club International Grand that number is way low. My dog ran one a year ago and there were 429 entries which does not touch the AKC Master national that had almost 700 entries. The difference with HRC tests is that once you are passed the started level the handler must shoot the gun as if hunting. In Canadian test you might get to hold a wooden replica. I was appalled at the last CKC test, where they had an actual single shot, at the way the handlers were handling that gun. Most in the CKC test have never hunted a day in their lives. The HRC Grand is judged on control and line manners before you even get to see a bird go down. If you have to tell your dog to reheel you might as well go back to the truck. One fellow's dog whined on the line when the bird went down and he was told to pick him up. In the four tests you are allowed one handle on a mark. My gal got to the last waterfowl test but was dropped because she had had a handle in the first test. I think it may have been nerves on the part of her handler as it was his first Grand too. After the waterfowl test the dogs also have to pass an upland test.

[terrym]

. Most in the CKC test have never hunted a day in their lives. .

Hhhmmm....that is almost sounding like bench shows?

[Sharon]

Sharon , if you are refering to the Hunting Retriever Club International Grand that number is way low. My dog ran one a year ago and there were 429 entries which does not touch the AKC Master national that had almost 700 entries. The difference with HRC tests is that once you are passed the started level the handler must shoot the gun as if hunting. In Canadian test you might get to hold a wooden replica. I was appalled at the last CKC test, where they had an actual single shot, at the way the handlers were handling that gun. Most in the CKC test have never hunted a day in their lives. The HRC Grand is judged on control and line manners before you even get to see a bird go down. If you have to tell your dog to reheel you might as well go back to the truck. One fellow's dog whined on the line when the bird went down and he was told to pick him up. In the four tests you are allowed one handle on a mark. My gal got to the last waterfowl test but was dropped because she had had a handle in the first test. I think it may have been nerves on the part of her handler as it was his first Grand too. After the waterfowl test the dogs also have to pass an upland test.

Thanks very much for the info. I see in the link that only 14.7% passed in 2013.

"the handler must shoot the gun as if hunting" quote That sure sounds good.

[crackerd]

Sharon, if you are refering to the Hunting Retriever Club International Grand that number is way low. My dog ran one a year ago and there were 429 entries which does not touch the AKC Master national that had almost 700 entries. The difference with HRC tests...

Sharon just got the numbers transposed, it's over 400 entries again. The difference between the HRC Grand and MN is...once a dog gets its HRCH title, it's "qualified for life" for the Grand (thus eligible for both of them held every year), whilst for the Master National dogs have to qualify every year (by passing four, five or six Master hunt tests). Also, the majority of dogs at the MN are still run by their owners, while hunt test pros handle roughly 90 out of 100 dogs at the Grand.

Ebenezer, I've not run a HT in almost 10 years. Has it happened yet with AKC that the MN numbers are being reduced by percentage of a dog's pass rate for weekend tests? Seem to recall 75-80% success was the target number. Also saw that more than 800 dogs qualified for MN last year so I'm wondering if reducing those numbers will ever happen.

MG

[ebenezer]

I don't run the AKC tests but in following the discussion on various forums it would seem that they have not been successful in reducing numbers. Right now the complaint is that once a test opens up on entry express the master levels are filled in an hour or so and people can't get in.
Retriever training in the States for hunt tests seems to be a much bigger business in the States than here in Canada. The pros running the Grand can only enter 12 dogs each so when you look at the percentages that is a lot of pros filling the spots.

[TurkeyRookie]

Most in the CKC test have never hunted a day in their lives.

I find that extremely interesting, I would have thought, (my ignorance) that a handler with a dog of that caliber (that can compete) would also work doing real hunting work, versus, "this is what my dog, could do, if we did hunt"

I've never done any type of trials, or tests, and no interest to ever, as my dog is my hunting partner, but in the folks who do participate, would you expect the same performance, in a real hunting scenario versus a mock one? in terms of how the dog handles, listens, etc.

A single shot versus a barrage of semi auto's, birds falling, calls going etc?

Or do you think a trail only dog, might be thrown off a bit?

This is by no means, a jab in anyway, and I hate that I feel I have to even say that, but given the way the dog threads have gone lately, I just wanted to make it clear, I am just curious from people who are involved, as I am not.

[terrym]

Not surprising really. I remember years ago in my beagleing days many trialers did't hunt their dogs.

[BurlyGirl]

I find that extremely interesting, I would have thought, (my ignorance) that a handler with a dog of that caliber (that can compete) would also work doing real hunting work, versus, "this is what my dog, could do, if we did hunt"

I've never done any type of trials, or tests, and no interest to ever, as my dog is my hunting partner, but in the folks who do participate, would you expect the same performance, in a real hunting scenario versus a mock one? in terms of how the dog handles, listens, etc.

A single shot versus a barrage of semi auto's, birds falling, calls going etc?

Or do you think a trail only dog, might be thrown off a bit?

This is by no means, a jab in anyway, and I hate that I feel I have to even say that, but given the way the dog threads have gone lately, I just wanted to make it clear, I am just curious from people who are involved, as I am not.

I think that your question is a hard one to answer. It would depend on each dog and handler team specifically. Some trialing dogs may never hunt because they are too noisy and agitated to be a suitable hunting companion. Some dogs know the difference between trialing and hunting and while they're high as a kite as trials, they're quiet and happy to hang out when hunting. Some dogs may be more suitable for hunting because a trial atmosphere may not bring out their best attributes. Some dogs may do well in both scenarios, but have a handler that only likes hunting and has no desire to ever trial. Some dogs who only trial may be thrown off in a hunting scenario where, for example, you shoot a bird, it doesn't stay where it lands but has a chance to run before it dies. The handler, not having a ribbon on the ground showing them where the bird finally rests, may send the dog to the wrong place. The dog may rely on its nose and not go where the handler sent it and by going cowboy, come up with the bird. OR the dog may be completely obedient, rely heavily on the handler because it is a trial-only dog and never come up with the bird because the handler sent it to a place where the bird didn't actually land. Etc. Etc. So many variables, I'd say it depends on each dog and handler team independently.

[Cass]

The difference with HRC tests is that once you are passed the started level the handler must shoot the gun as if hunting.

I better stay away from that test, poor dog would be exhausted before it got a retrieve LOL