Big cuts coming to Moose Tags???

[trimmer21]

This problem isn't confined to Ontario. Outdoor Canada magazine has had many articles concerning the dwindling Moose population in the western provinces and territories. Even northern US states,in particular,Maine,New Hampshire and Vermont are sitting up and taking notice. These states have mandatory reporting of all big game harvests and rigidly track Moose populations. The strange thing is that with all these departments looking into it,there seems to be no general consensus as to the cause.

[SK33T3R]

No comparing the amount of bears now and even 15 years back! used to be treat to see a bear and unless at the dump, 3-4 bears sightings was a good summer! in recent years ive been day trips where weve seen as many as 14 on a single trip and 50 is not exagerrated for the summer! Simply no comparision!

Bears dont eat adult moose, they eat em in the first 3 weeks of their lives, long before the first berry shows itself! not saying they are the only issue, but the manitoba study should put to rest the theory that bears dont eat calves!

I dont think people realize how many bears can be fed from a baited site in the spring! 4-5 no problem, how many bear baits were setup each spring? its not just that there are more bears, there are more bears with a severely reduced food supply in april and May when humans brought em a food supply! Now they hunt their spring food supply!

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE!

In the unit in which I spring bear hunted I was not alone. There were outfitters and other hunters. Locals and weekend warriors like me. We found plenty of other baitsites and tried to squeeze in somewhere between them all. I often wonder how close we all were to each other in some places. We tried to keep our spots secret, as did every one else!
We put out barrels and barrels of bait. Almost every bait had multiple bears on them. 17 bait sites - all a minimum of 5 km apart. I bet we were feeding 60+ bears! And that was only us! It stands to reason that if these bears were being fed, out in the woods, they tended to stay close to the food source. As long as we fed them there was no need to wander far and wide. We kept them out of town, out of cottages, etc etc.
These full bellied bears probably never even looked for other stuff to eat and this in turn gave calves and fawns a chance to get some legs under them.

By the time we were done the berries and such were just starting to come on ... another plus for the calves and fawns.

So what's the common denominator here. The spring bear hunt was more then just beneficial in the obvious areas of tourism, cash flow, etc etc...

The only other thing that changed was saving/protecting wolves/coyotes ??? what the hell for!

anyway just venting!

[sawbill]

I don't believe bears take the number of calves people are suggesting they take. No lone bear in his right mind is going to try to take a calf moose when the cow is right there. She'll defend that calf and can do some serious damage to a bear. There's easier food around than that for them.
Wolves on the other hand hunt in packs. While a few wolves worry the cow and distract her the others can grab the calf. I think that's where the calves are going. The other thing, wolves teach their young how to hunt and kill often leaving the animal uneaten.

[impact]

I don't believe bears take the number of calves people are suggesting they take. No lone bear in his right mind is going to try to take a calf moose when the cow is right there. She'll defend that calf and can do some serious damage to a bear. There's easier food around than that for them.
Wolves on the other hand hunt in packs. While a few wolves worry the cow and distract her the others can grab the calf. I think that's where the calves are going. The other thing, wolves teach their young how to hunt and kill often leaving the animal uneaten.

I fully agree with your comments as Quebec acknowledges the same with their western border shared with Ontario.

dans le nord et l’ouest du Québec, l’orignal fait face à la présence du loup et à un habitat de moins bonne qualité, ce qui l’empêche de prospérer autant qu’ailleurs.

[Hunter John]

http://youtu.be/-JVkaMqD5mI

This cow didn't seem to want to get involved.Not saying it always play's out like this but it's well known large bears target calves during that short period when they are vulnerable.

[Hunter John]

http://youtu.be/JIBCcV701no

This one from Alaska

[Fox]

We could stop hunting calves for a couple years and see what happens to the population?

The talk of the predators causing all the problems is an odd one, they have always been there and the population numbers have always worked themselves out.

People speak of the high coyote population in SW Ontario, but I was told that when my dad was growing up they never saw deer, they also never saw coyotes but they never saw deer. With the increase in deer population so did trend the coyote population in SW Ontario, and nobody can tell me that the deer population is in trouble, even with the tons of coyote kills.

Bear populations in Ontario are highest in the area through central Ontario, by far. The carrying capacity of the land in this area is very high, there is lots of food in every aspect for bears, if less bears are being shot then it makes perfect sense for the population to be higher, but only to an extent based on food.

This area of high bear population has always been a fringe zone for moose, it is not ideal habitat for them and they are competing with deer and now elk for food in these zones. It is also the closest moose area to humans, within 3 hours of the largest city in Canada and the highest populated "wilderness" that we have in the country. Would it not make sense that in an area with competing factors like deer, elk, bears, wolves and humans on top of being a natural fringe area would not have an impact on moose populations? Moose do not seem to adapt well to people, they do not seem to benefit like deer to people, so how does it make any sense that "bears are the problem".

There was a really good article asking the question about what we should be hunting when it comes to moose and I completely agree that things have to change. Why not adopt a system like the following for moose tag allocation.

Central Ontario
- 2 tags per moose or 3 tags per moose in some zones, moose hunting in generally a group thing, why not use more than 1 tag
- calves to be a draw animal as for cows
- bulls to be a draw animals in some zones, potentially like antlered deer in others
- mandatory year end hunters survey (should be done for all tag animals in my opinion, just 1 online form for all game)
- draw system similar to SW Ontario Controlled hunt, apply and buy a tag if you or a member of your group is successful in the draw, $5 for applying rather than $46 for potentially no tag

North Eastern and North Western Ontario
- Similar to Central Ontario with changes to the north to allow for more hunting opportunities
- No bull tag draw unless in specific zones where population is low or has a low carrying capacity
- 2 tags per adult moose, 1 tag per calf

[Swamp donk]

I don't believe bears take the number of calves people are suggesting they take. No lone bear in his right mind is going to try to take a calf moose when the cow is right there. She'll defend that calf and can do some serious damage to a bear. There's easier food around than that for them.
Wolves on the other hand hunt in packs. While a few wolves worry the cow and distract her the others can grab the calf. I think that's where the calves are going. The other thing, wolves teach their young how to hunt and kill often leaving the animal uneaten.

My friends in Wawa, the Soo, and Timmins tell me otherwise..... Bears take more than there share of calves in the spring im told. I have no reason to doubt them, as they spend a lot of time in the bush or on the lakes. In fact, this past fall while archery hunting for moose is an excellent example. I was sitting at a lake calling across the bay, my back was to the bush and was nestled in some shrubs surrounding me and eyes out over the lake, montana cow moose decoy set up infront and to my right 10 yards on the shoreline, and if youve ever seen one of these decoys, they look very real, but small in comparison to life size. Anyways, i was probably on my 5th set of calls, when from behind me i could hear the pounding of an animal charging in my direction in a gallop. I knew from the earth pounding it was of substantial weight and knew it was a bear. I wont lie, it startled the hell out of me and i stood up and turned around to see it stopped after it finally seen me at 10 yards. Once he knew i was there he was out of there, but he was damned well charging my decoy as im sure from his vantage point my decoy looked like a calf, and with me calling knew there was a moose in the area. This was late september when a calf is well on its way in growth and he was coming for it.......so spring time theres not a hope in hell they would think twice about grabbin some tasty moose meat..... And i cant really blame the greasy bastards, cause theres nothing like moose meat!! The wolves for sure are taking there toll on the calf numbers as well im sure. Ive been moose hunting for 12 years or so, and in that time have only laid eyes on 2 calves, lots of cows on there own, and more than enough bulls. Same as fresh tracks, very few cows have calves tagging along.

[unit28]

I dont know what the problem is but i certainly dont think cuts the MNR over the years has helped anything! i refuse to believe Fish and wildlife should a revenue generator for tge province! The focus should be sustaining and managing the resourses! Like anything, you get what put into it, seems the prov has only been cutting or taking on too many occasions.

Politics have no business in our Natural Resources.

[rick_iles]

I saw a big cow moose one year, that a buddy had shot. It had deep scratches on both sides of its haunches, where a very large bear had grabbed her. Some were not healed up yet. I couldn't spread my fingers wide enough to fit the scratches. No doubt, a bear grabbed her when she was calving. Probably pulled the calf out of her.