A Tundra Swan Season In Ontario

[LondonDave]

I would much rather just have the ability to shoot cormorants as opposed to a "season". Giving them a season indicates someone might want to eat them. I don't think I could, in good conscious, send my lab to retrieve one of them either. I would think he would give a look akin to something like "you gotta be #*&^ing me".

Dyth

Yeah that's what I meant. I'd just like to be able to shoot them.....period.

[jaycee]

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

4) Jaycee (Post # 105) ... \ However I will say that if they do not support Tundra Swan hunting then they do not support "waterfowl" hunting since "waterfowl" includes ducks, geese and swans.

Harlequin ducks , Yellow Rails and King Rails are also Waterfowl/Migratory birds. We do not hunt them either. There is a reason for this . Not all waterfowl needs to be hunted.

[jobbershunting]

I am not going to "fight" anyone over this proposal as everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. However I will say that if they do not support Tundra Swan hunting then they do not support "waterfowl" hunting since "waterfowl" includes ducks, geese and swans.

Note: The other issue to consider is that since there are some individuals within the CWS and the MNR that do not believe in any waterfowl hunting then perhaps it would be best to "terminate" all waterfowl hunting in Ontario (perhaps even in all of Canada) and permit the Americans to harvest our share of the ducks and geese like they are currently doing with our share of the Tundra Swans ... sorry ... this is the way that I see the issue ... nothing personal.
Jerome

And there goes any credibility you had. These statements are not only baseless they are full out ridiculous. Give your head a shake.

[Buddy Boy]

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Dyth Bringer (Post # 109) ... since the Cormorant is not a "game bird" there can not be a "season" for them. However if they were removed from the List of Protected Species then anyone could shoot them at any time. This is why Dr. S. Petrie suggested to me in January of 2010 to submit a "Proposal to Remove Mute Swans from the List of Protected Species" (see separate thread) when I initially discussed the potential of having a limited Tundra Swan harvest in the Province of Ontario.

2) Coco Zoo (Post # 110) ... you and some other "waterfowlers" see the hypocrisy in their argument and I thank you for posting your comment.

3) Jaycee (Post # 112) ... the eastern Tundra Swan population is more than 25% above their management goal and at their current population level may actually "trigger" an increase in the number of tags that will be available in future years ... so the Americans will get even more tags! Consequently your comparison to the Harlequin Duck is totally inappropriate and unwarranted.

Furthermore the Harlequin Duck was a legal bird in Ontario until the late 1990s or early 2000s but you can still hunt them in Alaska where they are still plentiful. However how many waterfowlers can distinquish a hen Bufflehead from a hen Harlequin Duck "in hand" let alone "in flight"?

The same argument for not having a Tundra Swan season due to the possible incidental harvest of a Trumpeter Swan could be and for the sake of this discussion should be applicable to protecting the Harlequin Duck in Ontario. I identified a hen Harlequin Duck "in fllight" once at Presqu'ile Provincial Park only because a drake Harlequin Duck was following her as they both flew pass my decoys. I notified the waterfowl technician that day and he posted a warning at the waterfowl registration office that Harlequin Ducks had been positively identified in the area. The same logical precaution could be applied during a limited Tundra Swan season in Ontario to provided further protection for our local Trumpeter Swans in addition to a "No Swan Hunt Zone" in some areas of the province.

Note: The Yellow Rail and King Rail are not plentiful in Ontario so there is no season for them just like there is currently no Sandhill Crane season in Ontario ... for now.

4) Jobber Shunting (Post # 113) ... you stated that I have lost "credibility" and that my statements were "baseless" and "full out ridiculous" however Mr. J. Malcolm (President, LPWA) cautioned us a few years ago during our Annual General Meeting that there were in fact CWS staff who would like to turn the entire Long Point area into a "no hunting" migratory bird sanctuary. One could say "as goes Long Point so goes the province" ... at least hypothetically speaking.

Note: Although I have designated the first $100,000.00 ($25,000.00 per year for the last four years) within my Charitable Gift Foundation to earn income for the implementation and monitoring of a limited Tundra Swan harvest in Ontario I have also designated the next $150,000.00 ($25,000.00 per year for the next six years) to earn income for other waterfowl related projects. Consequently what is good for those of us who would like to be able to hunt our share of Tundra Swans will eventually be good for those "waterfowlers" who may only want to hunt ducks.

Thanks again to all of you for your interest.

Jerome

[Dythbringer]

Hello Guys,

A quick response to your comments:

1) Dyth Bringer (Post # 109) ... since the Cormorant is not a "game bird" there can not be a "season" for them. However if they were removed from the List of Protected Species then anyone could shoot them at any time. This is why Dr. S. Petrie suggested to me in January of 2010 to submit a "Proposal to Remove Mute Swans from the List of Protected Species" (see separate thread) when I initially discussed the potential of having a limited Tundra Swan harvest in the Province of Ontario.

Jerome,

My post in response to LondonDave was completely tongue-in-cheek. I was joking that only good tasting animals have seasons. LOL.

Dyth

[duckslayer]

3) Jaycee (Post # 112) ... the eastern Tundra Swan population is more than 25% above their management goal and at their current population level may actually "trigger" an increase in the number of tags that will be available in future years ... so the Americans will get even more tags! Consequently your comparison to the Harlequin Duck is totally inappropriate and unwarranted.

Furthermore the Harlequin Duck was a legal bird in Ontario until the late 1990s or early 2000s but you can still hunt them in Alaska where they are still plentiful. However how many waterfowlers can distinquish a hen Bufflehead from a hen Harlequin Duck "in hand" let alone "in flight"?

The same argument for not having a Tundra Swan season due to the possible incidental harvest of a Trumpeter Swan could be and for the sake of this discussion should be applicable to protecting the Harlequin Duck in Ontario. I identified a hen Harlequin Duck "in fllight" once at Presqu'ile Provincial Park only because a drake Harlequin Duck was following her as they both flew pass my decoys. I notified the waterfowl technician that day and he posted a warning at the waterfowl registration office that Harlequin Ducks had been positively identified in the area. The same logical precaution could be applied during a limited Tundra Swan season in Ontario to provided further protection for our local Trumpeter Swans in addition to a "No Swan Hunt Zone" in some areas of the province.

Note: The Yellow Rail and King Rail are not plentiful in Ontario so there is no season for them just like there is currently no Sandhill Crane season in Ontario ... for now.

I was already thinking of this scenario before the harlequin's were brought up. Basically saying you don't want tundra swan hunting allowed do to the fact that trumpeters may accidentally be shot is like saying we should not allow duck hunting PERIOD as a harlequin may accidentally be taken, but thanks for bringing this up yourself Jaycee to discredit your own argument even more than you already have!!!

One thing is Jerome always has facts to back up his argument/credibility unlike everyone else in this thread that is against his proposal, he is not afraid to name names so to say, so his argument actually makes sense, instead of the he said she said bull that all the naysayers are bringing up. If you want to be credible Jaycee then lets hear some names!!!!!

[duckslayer]

And on another note with the harlequins and some of the other stupid regs in Ontario (like giving away our swan quota) the fine folks on the other side of lake Erie are allowed to shoot harlequins while we are not, but that is for another thread............

[jaycee]

And on another note with the harlequins and some of the other stupid regs in Ontario (like giving away our swan quota) the fine folks on the other side of lake Erie are allowed to shoot harlequins while we are not, but that is for another thread............

Those are the Regs. here in Ontario and we have to abide by them, if you don't like them , feel free to do otherwise.

Further to your other post , if you want names, also feel free to call the Agencies like I did and you will have their names .

[greatwhite]

I find it so unbelievable that some people want to try and stop another species to hunt. Just imagine if we had done that with Elk, Turkey or doves.

Personally I can see no reason to hunt doves and if I dead I would need a minimum of 20 - 30 for a real meal, maybe they should not have brought that back. But just because I have no interest in hunting it doesn't mean it should have been blocked. Seems to me Buddyboy is putting his own money into this, has done a lot of research, time an effort, contributes to many other efforts to do with waterfowl and he is shot down for this.. Personally I think he is trying very hard to add a new species that we can enjoy.

Anti hunters can just sit back and watch hunters try and ban their own sport.

[duckslayer]

Those are the Regs. here in Ontario and we have to abide by them, if you don't like them , feel free to do otherwise.

Further to your other post , if you want names, also feel free to call the Agencies like I did and you will have their names .

Thank you Jaycee in proving my point yourself, proving your argument has zero credibility. Instead of bringing some facts to the table to prove your side of the argument you go all childish on us instead.

I personally don't care that we can not shoot harli's and that they can on the other side of the pond, do you know why??? Because I have personally never seen a harli and the reason we are not allowed to shoot them is the eastern population of harli's does not have a large enough population to withstand any hunting of the spices. I am more personally put off that they are allowed to shoot them on the south shore of Erie for that reason, I would rather see them also protected over there as well until the population is strong enough to have a 1 bird limit on them without having any long term effects on that population. So for you to bring the harli's into this argument was just plain dumb........ and this is why

Now to get back on topic of the swans, does the tundra swan have a huntable population in Ontario??? You damn straight there is!!!!!! Have I ever seen a tundra swan while out hunting??? Thousands every year!!!!!! Have I ever seen trumpeter swans while out hunting???? Yes.......... in fact for the last 3-4 years I have seen the same trumpeters that were talked about in this very thread. The key to having a season for tundras is to have the areas that are known to hold trumpeters as no swan hunting zones and only have the open season in areas that have the largest populations of tundras migrate through. That paired with a well thought out and detailed booklet/pamphlet on identifying trumpeters/tundras/mutes included with the tag if you are lucky enough to draw one. Maybe a website can be created and included in the booklet/pamphlet so the lucky hunters that draws a tag can visit the site and learn how to properly identify the different swans. It could include verbal information, lots of pictures of all swans in various states of flight and key identification features of each swan as well as videos of all the swans in various flight patterns/angles all in different light situations and again pointing out the key identification features of each of the swans. All stressing that it is up to the hunter to properly identify the swan they are about to shoot and the importance of having a ZERO accidental harvest of trumpeters for the risk of loosing the swan season. Even though it has been proven by Jerome that a few accidentals would not hurt the population, of coarse it would be great if we could keep it at ZERO.