OFAH Position on Tag Cuts

[400bigbear]

Our wildlife natural resources are managed by the political party in power at the given time, this is bull! wildlife resources should be managed by someone heading a group with the biological abilities to manage fish and game gained by experience and data from the lakes and forests of our province, this office should also be free from political interference or influence from the party in power at the moment, ie cancellation of spring bear hunt for a $100,000 contribution from a tree hugger. As long as the head of our natural resources is changed with every election or on the whims of the Premier of the day, we are in a mess! that's my little rant for the day, thankyou!

You nailed it Sir on all counts and something I believe could actually work . But how to keep tree hugging antis from infiltrating out is what we would have to keep an eye on because there are already many in MNR is my belief although unsubstantiated and just an opinion . I don't look at your post as a rant but instead a clear thought .


TD

[trimmer21]

If you just changed the moose tag system to keep more of the young animals alive it would really help. Take the wolf and bear stuff out of it and there would still be a difference. If hunters shot only bulls our population would go up tremendously, they are just like whitetails, all you need are a few bulls for a lot of cows. We could also employ a minimum point system like they have out west, only older bulls are shot and the younger animals keep breeding.

They have grizzlies out west that are heavily protected and they still have healthy moose populations so it is not just the bears.

Someone mentioned,before,that there's enough difficulty in establishing gender,let alone age. A "point system" may work,but,as I mentioned in another thread,if there's no mechanism to refund tag fees,it merely becomes a cash grab/tax/rip-off. The integrity of the system becomes null and void. That would be totally unworkable. As far as not taking Calves,that's where an "anterless" system comes in. If very few "anterless"tags are issued,it would take care of the problem.

[blasted_saber]

Our wildlife natural resources are managed by the political party in power at the given time, this is bull! wildlife resources should be managed by someone heading a group with the biological abilities to manage fish and game gained by experience and data from the lakes and forests of our province, this office should also be free from political interference or influence from the party in power at the moment, ie cancellation of spring bear hunt for a $100,000 contribution from a tree hugger. As long as the head of our natural resources is changed with every election or on the whims of the Premier of the day, we are in a mess! that's my little rant for the day, thankyou!

Private corporations can be purchased just as easily, if not easier then government. I dont think its any better.

What if an anti hunting group funds them to stop hunting? How would you feel then?

[Fox]

Someone mentioned,before,that there's enough difficulty in establishing gender,let alone age. A "point system" may work,but,as I mentioned in another thread,if there's no mechanism to refund tag fees,it merely becomes a cash grab/tax/rip-off. The integrity of the system becomes null and void. That would be totally unworkable. As far as not taking Calves,that's where an "anterless" system comes in. If very few "anterless"tags are issued,it would take care of the problem.

I agree, no way will they not take money from us.
If you just go with antlered and antlerless as in the whitetail deer system it will all work out.
If there is a bull that loses its antlers early in the winter and it is shot with an antlerless tag then so be it.

[werner.reiche]

Someone mentioned,before,that there's enough difficulty in establishing gender,let alone age. A "point system" may work,but,as I mentioned in another thread,if there's no mechanism to refund tag fees,it merely becomes a cash grab/tax/rip-off. The integrity of the system becomes null and void. That would be totally unworkable. As far as not taking Calves,that's where an "anterless" system comes in. If very few "anterless"tags are issued,it would take care of the problem.

I've written the MNR a few times asking them to look at the point systems used by many American states, which seem to work fairly well, but they refuse to consider that because of Ontario's long-standing tradition of moose party hunting. Ontario's moose management system is unique in North America - and when you talk to hunters from other areas, they find it bizarre that killing of the calves is permitted, yet adults require a special draw. It doesn't make sense. The whole thing driving this odd system is the revenue generated by selling calf licenses. In point based draws, a nominal fee ($5USD) is required to enter the draw and the full fee is only paid if you receive a tag. This would cut Ontario's moose license revenue by about 80% or more (based on a 20% success rate).

[terrym]

You nailed it Sir on all counts and something I believe could actually work . But how to keep tree hugging antis from infiltrating out is what we would have to keep an eye on because there are already many in MNR is my belief although unsubstantiated and just an opinion . I don't look at your post as a rant but instead a clear thought .


TD

I have a buddy who has been with the MNR for 25 yrs. Yes, the place is infiltrated with tree hugging antis.

[trimmer21]

I have a buddy who has been with the MNR for 25 yrs. Yes, the place is infiltrated with tree hugging antis.

Your buddy is very astute. In all the years I had anything to do with Ontario public service bureaucrats,I've never seen a bunch that can switch political allegiances as fast as them. They'll be good little Liberals until they loose an election,then switch in the blink of an eye. It's sickening,really. It seem to me to be a lot like prostitution.

[blasted_saber]

I have a buddy who has been with the MNR for 25 yrs. Yes, the place is infiltrated with tree hugging antis.

Its also got hunters in its ranks, to be fair.

[400bigbear]

We have a lot of hunting freedom in Ontario, a bit too much for moose in my opinion. I know it has been talked about before but if we go to a draw system whereby you apply and pay if you receive a tag. You apply for a moose tag, antlered or antlerless, then if you are successful you pay for the game seal.

Why we don't have a draw system for a lot of our game is just dumb.

Bring back the moose

Ahh to be young again to see it all . No disrespect intended Fox and I had to reread your post several times not to take it out of context or get cranky . I've lived through many changes in the moose system from kill any during the 2 week deer and moose season , moose only season . two hunters to a moose , adult tag draws , calf tag draws , numbered amount of group size for tag etc . And I'm not ancient other than maybe to those before 45 . LOL

Already we pay for a tag before we go into the lottery for an adult tag and there is even a jurisdiction(s) that want the upfront tag fee for a calf before the draw for a calf . That makes it cost prohibitive for many especially for those parents who have many new young hunters . Many now are finding it not worth it to even chase a calf because of the split . Others who do will shoot all calves on sight just to fill a freezer because a decent share is needed if hunting with a group . Many , myself included actually count and prefer wildgame over store bought and yes it can save us some coin . Does it cost me ? Yes it does . Most of my gear though I did not acquire overnight . The only thing I actually have to buy anymore outside of the regular expenses is more fuel when hunting moose or deer unless I leave my area . Then that is a whole new scene . I have done it though .

Is it only about the kill and freezer full ? NO . But I understand that part too . Since I don't own a moose camp personally other than a tent camp I could just say lets cut out moose hunting for 5 years altogether as I'm concerned and I'll travel out west etc if I want, but how is that going to help my fellow moose hunters or keep on the tradition in Ontario . I don't have the perfect answer either but feeding the wolf (MNR) by paying just to get into the lottery whether I get one or not , is not the answer either . It just discourages more, especially our youth from participating in hunting period . You have a job and old enough to earn Fox , but what about those who live at home and are dependents . Are we to tell them they can't participate because we as grandfathers,fathers , uncles can't afford to enter them in a draw only . ? I already supply supply firearms and gear for some . Some are not even blood relatives not that it matters . I just want hunting to continue .

A paying always draw is not the answer . It just prohibits or will only make it so the rich and elite can hunt . That is how it is in Europe . Yes I'm into conserving and protecting the resource for the future generation .

TD

[400bigbear]

I've written the MNR a few times asking them to look at the point systems used by many American states, which seem to work fairly well, but they refuse to consider that because of Ontario's long-standing tradition of moose party hunting. Ontario's moose management system is unique in North America - and when you talk to hunters from other areas, they find it bizarre that killing of the calves is permitted, yet adults require a special draw. It doesn't make sense. The whole thing driving this odd system is the revenue generated by selling calf licenses. In point based draws, a nominal fee ($5USD) is required to enter the draw and the full fee is only paid if you receive a tag. This would cut Ontario's moose license revenue by about 80% or more (based on a 20% success rate).

Well said and so true Werner . Good to see your still posting .

TD