Lyme disease prevention vaccine?

[C.A. in TO]

Mike, did you read the article from Cornell that Sharon linked to? It speaks to the excellent results from using doxy for dogs and also about the various tests for determining antibodies -- the very things you question.
It also mentions the risks/benefits of the vaccine that your vet is selling. It may be making your vet rich but not mine. Even after telling him that we visit our dogs breeder in PA who lives on a deer rich game preserve, he did not recommend the vaccine.

[MikePal]

Mike, did you read the article from Cornell that Sharon linked to? It speaks to the excellent results from using doxy for dogs and also about the various tests for determining antibodies -- the very things you question.
It also mentions the risks/benefits of the vaccine that your vet is selling. It may be making your vet rich but not mine. Even after telling him that we visit our dogs breeder in PA who lives on a deer rich game preserve, he did not recommend the vaccine.

I was actually impressed with the article..very balanced, nice for a change.

I realized the 'doxy' works well for Lyme infected dogs....it was the preventive approach I was asking about....give the dog a 'doxy' dosage when you pull off a tick, like they do with humans. That aspect, the vet says, was not proven to be a 'Yea or Nea' with dogs.

As for the immunization....I tried all the arguments, being a cheapo, but my wife tends to lean towards, if there is a vaccine, the dogs are getting it. So at $35, she's right....it's cheaper than a vet visit later to get the antibiotics and the dog doesn't have to suffer with any pain until we realize there is a problem.

The risk of not vaccinating is minimal since the disease in dogs is probably self-limiting in the majority of cases and is effectively treated with antibiotics, even in cases of recurrent disease. Furthermore, the risk of ever developing clinical Lyme disease appears to be relatively low.

[vom Dufenshmirtz]

Sylke has had her first vaccination for Lyme disease two weeks ago and is due for her booster on May 20
Was there adverse reactions to the Vaccination Dufensmirtch ?

none, I used Nobivac, I think.

[vom Dufenshmirtz]

..over $600 for 3 dogs to be made safe for another year

I bought the vaccine in the US for $15/dose, I asked my GP for Doxy prescription and I use bulk Permethrin.
I could treat 100 dogs for $600 with this system

[vom Dufenshmirtz]

As for the immunization....I tried all the arguments, being a cheapo, but my wife tends to lean towards, if there is a vaccine, the dogs are getting it. So at $35, she's right....it's cheaper than a vet visit later to get the antibiotics and the dog doesn't have to suffer with any pain until we realize there is a problem.

We may be going in circles here

Here's my bottom line, based on my research. I am not a vet a biologist or anything close, but I did discuss this issue with professionals and came to the following conclusions
1. no need to test dogs for Lyme (blood test), it's inconclusive and it's not recommended to treat asymptomatic dog anyways, so why bother..?
2. use preventatives, more if you run dogs in tick/Lyme infested area - topicals once a month, spray as needed, tick collars
3. remove ticks promptly, the risk of infection within 72 hours is very low
4. if dog is symptomatic, put it on Doxy (dosage online) Human Doxy works fine, no need to go to a vet (for me). If you don't see improvement with 1-2 days - go see a vet. (This is for people who are confident in this way of thinking).
5. If you get a tick on yourself, take 1-2 doses of Doxy (watch out for sun exposure)
6. Use spray on your clothing or wash in Permethrin (instructions can be found online).

I really should take the dog out instead of typing all this for umpteens time

[MikePal]

I could treat 100 dogs for $600 with this system

The $250 a dog covers their annual 'Wellness' check, Blood work, Heartworm medication and Rabies shots etc....the tick specific stuff is only $35

1. no need to test dogs for Lyme (blood test), it's inconclusive and it's not recommended to treat asymptomatic dog anyways, so why bother..?

I agree with what you've said, thanks for taking the time to post......it all rings true to what I have learned.

What I did learn from the Vet, (if I remember correctly) , the true test for Lyme disease is actual tissue samples and that is invasive, so they rely of the Snap test (blood tests to detect antibodies to the Borrelia organism) that tells them if the dog has been exposed to the bacteria....then it's a treat or not treat with the antibiotics or wait till they are symptomatic. She threw out a number I think of around 10% of dogs exposed to the bacteria develop Lyme disease .....the clinic here (Eastern Ont) treats about 10-15 cases of Lyme disease a year, so it not an epidemic.

[vom Dufenshmirtz]

The $250 a dog covers their annual 'Wellness' check, Blood work, Heartworm medication and Rabies shots etc....the tick specific stuff is only $35

my apologies (and I couldn't treat a dog for $6 clearly )
FWIW, I don't do 'wellness' exams, there's even a trend in human medicine, that says, they're not needed.
I've been around dogs long enough, to know when to take a dog to a vet (or so I think), I don't need a vet to tell me a well eating, running and happy dog is healthy. It's like that joke about consultants - "you told me something I already knew and you want me to pay for it". The only reason is rabbies, but that too can be now done once every 3 years in most municipalities, AFAIK. Some municipalities may even subsidy rabbies vaccination, though I never heard about one close to me.

[Sharon]

I also don't do wellness exams until the dog is around 8+. At that point blood work to recognize any early organ problems( kidneys, liver, heart) seem a good idea to me, , so we have a baseline for possible future problems.
I agree. I can check for cataracts, ear infections, teeth etc myself.

[C.A. in TO]

We had decided we would do the same -- baseline wellness between 7-8 years. Eldest is 6 now and just had dental work so we did the full wellness as pre-op and that will do.