No Extra Tags For 90

[rick_iles]

The reason the MNR are not forthcoming with their data, is that there is none. When questioned , the responsible biologist in Aylmer admitted that there was no data of winter mortality in the southwest, but that his desision was based on a lower harvest the last couple of seasons, and from information received from COs that they haven't been seeing lots of deer. He said the reduction was a "precautionary" measure. Well, those of us who actually were out in the field this past winter can attest to the fact that there was no winter mortality in the south. Deer were seen basically all over the place. Vehicle deer collisions are routine. With respect to the lower harvest, I suspect that is largely due to the amount of standing corn for the past few years. I know in our area, we didn't see as many deer until the fields were harvested. That was mostly after the controlled hunts. One landowner said he found acre plots of area in his fields that were trampled down by deer. He has never seen so much crop damage. It is interesting that they cut tags to zero down in the southwest, yet in the northwest where winter mortality was severe, thousands of excess doe tags were allowed.....go figure !

[Hawkman]

You can apply to both hunts, however since there aren't any additional tags available, you are one and done.
If you use your tag up north, the only way you can hunt 90b controlled hunt is if you hunt in a group that has tags available.

Actually to hunt in a controlled hunt, every hunter participating must have a validation of his own, even if that hunter has used his deer tag already.

[Hawkman]

The reason the MNR are not forthcoming with their data, is that there is none. When questioned , the responsible biologist in Aylmer admitted that there was no data of winter mortality in the southwest, but that his desision was based on a lower harvest the last couple of seasons, and from information received from COs that they haven't been seeing lots of deer. He said the reduction was a "precautionary" measure. Well, those of us who actually were out in the field this past winter can attest to the fact that there was no winter mortality in the south. Deer were seen basically all over the place. Vehicle deer collisions are routine. With respect to the lower harvest, I suspect that is largely due to the amount of standing corn for the past few years. I know in our area, we didn't see as many deer until the fields were harvested. That was mostly after the controlled hunts. One landowner said he found acre plots of area in his fields that were trampled down by deer. He has never seen so much crop damage. It is interesting that they cut tags to zero down in the southwest, yet in the northwest where winter mortality was severe, thousands of excess doe tags were allowed.....go figure !

Your observations make sense to you and they sure sound logical to me as well.

However, on a larger scale, if MNR limits tags in one area, hunters from that region may flood to the area that has tags available, and introduce added pressure to that region's deer population.

The Ministry never really try to explain their logic or reasons to us hunters, and I suspect they never will anyway. To me it really is no big deal to limit the number of tags for a season or two, be it on deer or any other game animal.
They increased possession limits on Canada geese last year so maybe they want us to shoot more geese!

[rick_iles]

I don't disagree with you. The problem we all should have is the MNR methodology. To totally eliminate excess tags in an area where there was arguably no winter mortality, yet issue thousands of tags in areas known to have high mortality rates is in my opinion, definitely not based on sound science.

[dutchhunter]

same goes for us bow hunting ,if we us are tag well bow hunting then the only way we can hunt are controlled hunt is to hunt with a group that someone else has a tag .thy should keep the bow tags totally independent from the gun hunts .kind of sucks for us guys that bow hunt and then go north for the November gun hunt then want to hunt at home for the controlled hunt .we need a new system in place in Ontario Dutch

[Ont_Excal]

Actually to hunt in a controlled hunt, every hunter participating must have a validation of his own, even if that hunter has used his deer tag already.

Thanks for the correction.
To hunt in a controlled hunt one must still apply to the draw.

[skeeter1]

There has been and will continue to be standing corn in the controlled hunts, so overall, harvest rates in the long term should be a pretty good indicator as to population. Racoons trample a lot of corn as well and there are tons of those around, and another forum member who I bought a scope off found evidence of six winter deaths in an area where he was shed hunting and refreshing his lanes. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with either side as no one really knows and I would rather lean on the side of caution after a winter like that (and I am in the South). One thing I do know is I have been seeing far fewer fawns and yearling than I normally see, maybe the winter kill wasn't that high but maybe the birth rate has suffered due to poor available nutrition over the hard winter. It is much easier to be an armchair critic (and I am guilty of it too) then to be the one who has to make the call.

[Ont_Excal]

I can understand an adjustment in tag allocation if it made any sense.
What troubles me is that it looks like they painted WMUs 89 - 95 with the same brush.

I don't for second think that all these WMUs had the same kind of winter impact.
They all have differing crop mix and changes in topography. Some are more snow bound than others.
The area I hunt has a lot of no-till farming practices in use so crop residue is left on top of the soil and provides animals with easy access until the deep snows come.

Raccoons do more damage than deer to standing corn. Most time when the corn stalk in laying down it's because a raccoon climbed up and it's weight took the stalk down. A deer would eat standing up and have no need to knock down the stalk.

This year in the southwest there will be a lot less corn. Spring conditions dictated a huge planting of soybeans, at least according to AG Canada.

The only way to know harvest rates is for a compulsory survey for all hunters.

[gunter]

I believe if you applied in a group and someone has a tag you can still hunt.

[trky chsr]

I'm on the fence as far as winter mortality as I found more dead deer this spring than I ever have (Norfolk County). However on the flip side I have seen more deer this spring and summer than I ever have. Mind you I also saw a lot more coyotes and they may have an impact on fawn mortality. But I agree it is better to be precautionary than too blase and have to limit all tags. TC