Bizarre Truth About Purebred Dogs :)

[Sharon]

That's a nugget of information I wasn't aware of Welsh. Tx

I told you someone could explain genetics better than me. Well said Welsh.

You have been talking to someone + Cass interested in formal competition, so our views lean in that direction.

However, even if I only wanted a good, faithful hunting dog, pedigrees would be important to me for the health reasons listed in the link.

Have I taken chances? Sure I have. Was I disappointed eventually? Yes.

Not to say that others have a rescue or non pedigreed dog that has turned out a great. Just not a chance I wanted to take with a dog I wanted to compete with.

[Cass]

I told you someone could explain genetics better than me. Well said Welsh.

You have been talking to someone + Cass interested in formal competition, so our views lean in that direction.

However, even if I only wanted a good, faithful hunting dog, pedigrees would be important to me for the health reasons listed in the link.

Sharon's statement is golden. It all depends on what you want out of the dog. I personally never thought of field trials or anything until I got my guy and he blew my socks off. Now, I am preparing to trial this fall. Do you need to trial just because you have a great dog? Certainly not. However for me it gives me something more I can do with him - and be around people who actually like talking dogs (I love my fiance, but I drive her mental with my dog talk - not an interest of her's lol). My point is I would have hated to end up with a dog like him without papers and not be able to pursue something like that. I didn't think I wanted to trial but he changed my mind. It would be frustrating to have that happen with a dog that you were unable to make that choice with if you wanted to.

[Sharon]

Very well said.

Reminder to folks that if they get an American Field pedigreed dog, )FDSB), it won't be recognized by the CKC. This will limit your opportunities in Canada.

( Great talking to you guys. My husband is yelling at me to get off the computer. ) Au revoir.

[JBen]

Welshs comment about there being occasion where they have allowed cross breeding was what I was referring to, that's the first I'd heard of it.

Also note Terry's where there seems to be an emerging "demand" for competitions and trials of un-papered dogs.

Also note many- many threads bemoaning the lack of participation, disappearing events/clubs...

Funny that.
/one wonders if the day is coming when a dinosaur (s) needs to rethink some things.
*************

Sharon, I understand the genetic aspect. Depending on devil details arguments can be made both ways on that.

not sure how to word it "properly".

But let me try this way once again, not looking for "answers", or justifications one way or the other. Its more rhetorical, "food for thought" kind of thing.

If I had a X/Y mix (pick two suitable breeds, dunno maybe a Vizla/Weimaranar mix) and it was blowing the competition away.
Would you as an owner/breeder of X or Y.
a) consider breeding your with it? Pay a stud fee?
b) buy one from a litter?

Or would you allow what really amounts to little more than "racism" and the color of its skin (bloodlines) stop you.
The CKC?

[trkyhntr21]

Honestly don't see why you are continuing this jben other than to argue if you feel this strongly about your theory go buy your cross breed and train it up and try to prove that hundreds of years of genetics and papers don't mean squat.
Breeding great dogs from isn't as easy as you think even with breeding a champion to another champion from known lines.
Looking forward to hearing about your vizsla/weimaraner cross breed superstar dog.

[welsh]

If I had a X/Y mix (pick two suitable breeds, dunno maybe a Vizla/Weimaranar mix) and it was blowing the competition away.
Would you as an owner/breeder of X or Y.
a) consider breeding your with it? Pay a stud fee?
b) buy one from a litter?

Or would you allow what really amounts to little more than "racism" and the color of its skin (bloodlines) stop you.
The CKC?

I would think you had a great dog, JBen, but I wouldn't breed to it because the results would be utterly unpredictable. See my earlier remark about Labradoodles: if you cross a Lab and a Poodle, the resulting pups may be fairly predictable in terms of appearance, etc., but start breeding those pups and you have no idea what traits are going to start popping up.

This isn't "doggy racism," which implies an unfounded prejudice. It's a practical understanding of genetics.

Remember that if you're going to be involved in trials or tests at any kind of serious level, it is going to take a substantial amount of time and money. You want to take out the variables.

[trkyhntr21]

Also as welsh has said the breed clubs that have allowed outcrossing do so only under strick guidelines from there breed warden using predetermined individuals and traits to add and is usually only done when the alternative is worse ie a breed dying out or being wiped out like some euro breeds after ww1 and 2.

[jaycee]

This I am posting just as a matter of interest in this thread .

Two dogs that I was familiar with came from a mixed breed both retrievers, Labrador Retriever and Golden Retriever, two pups from the same litter purchased by friends [cheaply].
One pup black in colour turned out to be an excellent retriever and water dog, also would hunt and lead it's owner to dead deer. It was for that owner his perfect dog.


The other pup litter mate , [yellow ]in colour and although was a better looking dog as it grew , turned out to be dumb as a stump. That owner tried everything he could do to teach it to retrieve or even get into the water , all turned out to be of no avail, that dog just turned out to be a door mat and just ran around chasing the kids and destroying things.
That dogs owner finally gave up and found the dog a good home and purchased a dog of known pedigree and was very happy.


Mixed breeds ? you never can tell what you get , could be the best of the two or the worst.

[Sharon]

" if you're going to be involved in trials or tests at any kind of serious level, it is going to take a substantial amount of time and money. You want to take out the variables." quote Welsh


Exactly. Well said.

[terrym]

Also part of the point of field trials is to improve the breeds. Identifying the best candidates and using them to breed achieves this. the other thing is to "create" a new breed or useful "hybrid" takes years and years. You need to let a dog age and develop to show what they are capable of. People like Wehle who created the famous "Elhew" pointers were wealthy guys with estates and it took years and likely hundreds of breedings and they were still working with a single breed, English Pointers. In practical terms trying to create a breed for the average person is ridiculous. What we have access to is the results of thousands upon thousands of carefully planned breedings by experts.
Rolling the dice and hoping for positive results is ok if you are mixing paint. Dogs live for years so if you get a dud.......