Surplus tags - Moose

[topher]

Thats how it works. Once one member of your group gets drawn, everyone else is pulled out as well.

So.. How do some groups get bull and cow tags? It multiple bull tags?

[rick_iles]

So.. How do some groups get bull and cow tags? It multiple bull tags?

The only way, is that they applied in two groups, or more, or applied individually or a combination. It depends on the guaranteed group size. If you have 6, P1 hunters , and the guaranteed group size is 3, they would apply as two groups, and each group would get a tag. Or, if the guaranteed size was. 3, and the other three applied as individuals, and one or more lucked out and got tags .

[Frozenfew]

Most of the surplus tags are unused or unapplied for northern resident tags. It's almost impossible to draw bull or cow in pool 2. But I have drawn bull on second choice... The rules for the draw are quite clear and posted by the mnr. Then it comes down to math.
here's the way it works
In areas to the north I believe 10% get pulled out automatically for northern resident s (percentage may be off)
Guaranteed groups get there tags then.
After that the number of remaining applicants get divided by the number of remaining tags.. If that number is less than the guaranteed group size once rounded up to a whole number than the member of all groups that big or bigger get a tag... going to the member who hasn't drawn for the most years in a row.. After that whatever is left goes by random draw. If a guy in a group of 3 draws then all members in his group are pulled out of the draw. This goes until the applicants run out or the tags do...usually the latter. Then the process is repeated for choice 2. The pool 2 choice etc.

With that said most of the tags you see are northern resident surplus meaning No one from north of sudbury applied or they got tags the normal draw. Make sense now? There is no conspiracy here. I once thought the preference point system was better..until I did the math. Get more tools in your group or drive further.. that's the bottom line

[jtomas]

once your group gets a tag, the others still get put in the draw as individuals. applying as a group in essence, gets you two kicks at the can.

[Frozenfew]

J Thomas. .. you are absolutely not correct. Once a group member draws.. that's it. Period. All members removed from the draw process.

[rick_iles]

J Thomas. .. you are absolutely not correct. Once a group member draws.. that's it. Period. All members removed from the draw process.

Correct !!!!

[Foxx]

J Thomas. .. you are absolutely not correct. Once a group member draws.. that's it. Period. All members removed from the draw process.

You are correct, Frozenfew

[SK33T3R]

Most of the surplus tags are unused or unapplied for northern resident tags. It's almost impossible to draw bull or cow in pool 2. But I have drawn bull on second choice... The rules for the draw are quite clear and posted by the mnr. Then it comes down to math.
here's the way it works
In areas to the north I believe 10% get pulled out automatically for northern resident s (percentage may be off)
Guaranteed groups get there tags then.
After that the number of remaining applicants get divided by the number of remaining tags.. If that number is less than the guaranteed group size once rounded up to a whole number than the member of all groups that big or bigger get a tag... going to the member who hasn't drawn for the most years in a row.. After that whatever is left goes by random draw. If a guy in a group of 3 draws then all members in his group are pulled out of the draw. This goes until the applicants run out or the tags do...usually the latter. Then the process is repeated for choice 2. The pool 2 choice etc.

With that said most of the tags you see are northern resident surplus meaning No one from north of sudbury applied or they got tags the normal draw. Make sense now? There is no conspiracy here. I once thought the preference point system was better..until I did the math. Get more tools in your group or drive further.. that's the bottom line

you are absolutely correct that most of the surplus tags are left overs from the northern draw.

the way these tags are allocated is lunacy.. the first draw is open to all the northerners and the southerners .... then they have a special draw reserved for this NORTHERN ONLY DRAW. 10% of the original tags were already pulled out ... because there were not enough northerners available all those unclaimed go to surplus.

I called last year and wrote here also that the MNR should have the northern draw FIRST... get all the northerners (as many as possible) satisfied and out of the main draw. then conduct the main draw and satisfy all the remaining applicants! If you bought your tag and APPLIED then how the H#ll can there be surplus TAGS.. you paid the $, entered on time, selected your preference and unit (played their game) and because of the way they shuffle the nut under the shell you don't get a tag yet there is surplus!

gov't at it's best ! unit 19 I believe had 150ish tags (bow) last year - bull - 10% were pulled for the northern draw ..guess how many northerners where in a position for those tags - ONE - 1 stinking tag was given out.... the other 14 went to surplus for the mid august speed dialing contest.

how did buying a tag on time ... applying as per the rules ... not getting a tag .... and then it turns into another type of lottery ...

when did the MNR become Ontario Lottery Commission?

what's the problem? the tag issuers in Indiana can't write a logarithm to fix this surplus thing ....

so the MNR has to have some of their staff answer the phones at their leisure, after 530, in mid august!

our tag system is not perfect by any means .. and any plan is better then no plan, but this surplus tags in units where applicants are going without just reeks of a loophole that needs closing ...

on another note if the 10% of northern tags are not being used up at least drop the ratio down to 5 or 6% and get those tags in the hands of the rightful applicants ... the biggest beef I hear all the time is from the north because they can't get tags .. yet over 90% of the tags pulled for them in my unit go to surplus?? DUH??? LACK OF INTEREST? HMMMM

THERE SHOULD NEVER, NOWAY, EVER, BE SURPLUS TAGS UNTIL ALL APPLICANTS -POOL 1, POOL 2, GROUPS, SINGLES - WHATEVER ARE FILLED!

[Frozenfew]

Sk33t3r. The reason there is surplus though is that 95% of people are drawing tags in some of these archery units like 19 , 18a, and 21 a and b. The northern residents are probably not applying for them because they don't want to deal with the masses of people with so many tags issued. The rules are clearly laid out and if you want a northern tag...move north or call. I got through after 2 hours last year and a bull tag in 19 was still available! It's not the perfect system but it's not terrible. I'd wager to say that you didn't apply to 19 anyways because your odds of getting a tag would be really good as an individual applicant..2 is almost a guarantee in a couple of units with a bow as well. Personally I think the only way they could improve the system is to allocate a % of tags to groups of 2-4 in areas where the guaranteed group size is 8 or larger. But I understand why there is a northern allocation and accept it. There are far more injustices in moose management to get mad about. If you understand the rules, analyze the data and do the math you can get multiple tags with only a couple of guys. Hope you draw soon!

[rick_iles]

My complaint is with the northern resident tag allocation....period. What makes northern residents worthy of preferential treatment ? The resource is owned by ALL residents. The lion's share of the money generated into the economies are from "southerners" or "easterners".
Given MNRF's rationale, we "southerners" should get preferential treatment where turkey tags are concerned !