Definition of Sharing a firearm?

[dutchhunter]

I would just bring one gun that fit the new hunter and try to help and teach them all you can and worry about shooting birds your self another time .I am 6foot 1 and shoot a 1187 compact with no problems .so you could take the odd bird but let this be a full on learning shoot. you will find that you get more out of watching a newby get there first then shooting your self .I know I do .good on you for teaching a new hunter .enjoy your time out Dutch

[scarkner]

I took a new hunter out turkey hunting this spring (not an apprentice) who hadn't yet received his PAL in the mail (even though he passed his test and applied), and we brought only one gun. This was despite the fact that we were both fully licensed for hunting. I decided against letting him use my gun while I used my crossbow because my understanding was that I had to be directly supervising his use of the gun. If I was using my crossbow, I would not be directly supervising him.
This is similar to the situation you describe because neither hunter was technically allowed to posess a gun. So if you have two guns out of the case, with one gun being held by each hunter (whether loaded or not), it would seem like this would be against the law.

I agree, obivously if we are both holding guns, that's a problem.

My thinking was more in line with the other folks, that if one gun is encased then it should be OK.

Taken to extremes, if I go hunting alone, I can bring a pile of guns, providing I only have one out of the case being used. Why should this change when I have my daughter with me? Still only have ONE firearm being shared by the two of us.

Ah... waiting for a CO response.

[blasted_saber]

One gun, and one gun only. Pick one that fits her properly and try your best to hit something with it.

[welsh]

Why should this change when I have my daughter with me?

Because the rules say clearly that in the special case of hunting with your daughter, only one gun is permitted. So by having a second, encased gun, you leave it to a CO's discretion as to whether to charge you.

[Sinker]

What exactly is a CO going to charge him with? Hes storing a firearm. 1000% legal.

One loaded gun out of case between the two of them is perfectly fine. You can have as many encased, unloaded guns you want unless im missing something.

S.

[brent]

Only one gun can be out of the case. You can bring as many as you want, but you can only have one uncased and loaded.

More than one uncased, and your asking for trouble.

S.

I agree with Sinker.

No different than having a bunch of guns with you yourself when hunting but only having one out of case, loaded and in use at a time.

Believe it or not, most CO's are great guys and love seeing the youngsters out.

[welsh]

What exactly is a CO going to charge him with? Hes storing a firearm. 1000% legal.

You may argue that the firearm is stored but it is also in your possession while you are hunting. The intent of the provision is to ensure that when you hunt with an apprentice, the apprentice is fully supervised, which obviously you can't do if you are hunting yourself. To this end, the rule says that you can share a single firearm. That's unequivocal and it rules out using separate firearms at separate times (assuming it accurately reflects the actual wording of the FWCA).

This is another situation where people hand out advice based on arguments they've come up with, forgetting that the only place that argument counts is before a judge. Nobody here is qualified to say what is 1000% legal, and whether we think the law is logical is irrelevant. If you don't want to make your argument before a judge, you ask a CO and get a clear answer.

To Brent's point, as I pointed out earlier, most COs would probably give it a pass unless they had reason to believe you were both hunting and popped one gun in the case when you saw them coming. But the safest answer here is ask a CO, because "Some guy on the Internet called 'Joe1234' said it was okay" is a poor defence, should it come to that.

[topher]

Put a trigger lock on the stored firearm that is in the case. Than there is NO doubt that only one firearm.is being used the time.

[mark270wsm]

lol you guys are talking about CO and its really not even there jurisdiction its the Feds that over see the rules and regulation on migratory game birds .. talk to the feds on rules .. thats why your daughter needs a waterfoul permit to shoot the guns she even shoots her own limits and you can then shoot yours .. if its provincial she can not buy a licence .. so talk to the right people first

[welsh]

lol you guys are talking about CO and its really not even there jurisdiction....

Actually, the question of what constitutes a shared firearm is entirely a matter of Ontario's FWCA, because the apprentice hunter program is an Ontario program (introduced by the Mike Harris government).

I'm not aware of any age limit in the Migratory Birds Convention Act. Provinces set regulations regarding who can hunt within their boundaries; the federal law exists to control the take. The only thing that might apply is that on the designated Waterfowler Heritage Days, a minor does not require a migratory birds permit. In this case, the federal regs say explicitly that the person accompanying the minor may not possess or use a firearm. But that would not apply if accompanying a licensed minor.

I did a quick search in the consolidated statutes and regulations for Ontario but can't find the actual wording that the excerpt from the hunters' safety course posted above is based on.