"Invasive" Species?

[blasted_saber]

People thinks it is sad when done toward a muskie, but when the same is done to a Bowfin, Gar or Carp, it doesn't generate the same response.

Poetic justice I guess...

* NO WAY am I condoning this type of behaviour. Personally, I believe that all fish (all life) should be respected, and yes, including Round Goby. I just love how there is so much reaction online about it, but I've been to places where carp, suckers, gar, and bowfin are treated with the same detest and no one even bats an eyebrow.

It doesnt generate the same response because in the case of gobies and carp, they are non-native, invasive species which are devastating to native fisheries. We should be ERADICATING them.

[MuskieBait]

I don't want to stir the pot...but...let me list the fish that are invasive in one form or another in Ontario...that these fish do not receive such indiscriminant genocide...

1) Crappie in Lake Scugog

2) Northern Pike in Haliburton region

3) Smallmouth Bass in many Algonquin lakes

4) Brown Trout and Rainbow Trout in headwater streams

I can go on but I'll stop there...

People pull the invasive card when describing Round Goby and Common Carp, then forgets that many of the popular sportfish in Ontario is just as invasive in their own rights...yet people continues to plant, stock or tolerate their existence...

And then people treat the true native fish like Gar, Bowfin and Redhorse like garbage, killing them without any respect for native species (or life in general).

Do Ontario a favour. Next time you are in the Haliburton and catch a pike, or deep in the Algonquin and catch a bass, kill it like you would to a Round Goby.

[oaknut]

I don't want to stir the pot...but...let me list the fish that are invasive in one form or another in Ontario...that these fish do not receive such indiscriminant genocide...
Do Ontario a favour. Next time you are in the Haliburton and catch a pike, or deep in the Algonquin and catch a bass, kill it like you would to a Round Goby.

Some lakes in Haliburton did not have pike and some did. Pike are all over Ontario and have been for longer than man has been here. The same goes for smallmouth. Tes the MNR used to stock cirtain lakes and that was a boo boo however it is still an excellent fish. Im sure im preaching for nothing and you were trying to either make a point that I missed or were just looking to get a rise out of someone.

Success

[Fishinchris]

Some lakes in Haliburton did not have pike and some did. Pike are all over Ontario and have been for longer than man has been here. The same goes for smallmouth. Tes the MNR used to stock cirtain lakes and that was a boo boo however it is still an excellent fish. Im sure im preaching for nothing and you were trying to either make a point that I missed or were just looking to get a rise out of someone.

Success

I'd like to hear what Haliburton lakes you think had pike in them more than 12 years ago?

[Pat32rf]

I remember pike fishing trips with my parents sixty years ago. Don't remember the names of the lakes, but at least once every summer we would make a pike trip....

[seabast]

I don't want to stir the pot...but...let me list the fish that are invasive in one form or another in Ontario...that these fish do not receive such indiscriminant genocide...

1) Crappie in Lake Scugog

2) Northern Pike in Haliburton region

3) Smallmouth Bass in many Algonquin lakes

4) Brown Trout and Rainbow Trout in headwater streams

I can go on but I'll stop there...

People pull the invasive card when describing Round Goby and Common Carp, then forgets that many of the popular sportfish in Ontario is just as invasive in their own rights...yet people continues to plant, stock or tolerate their existence...

And then people treat the true native fish like Gar, Bowfin and Redhorse like garbage, killing them without any respect for native species (or life in general).

Do Ontario a favour. Next time you are in the Haliburton and catch a pike, or deep in the Algonquin and catch a bass, kill it like you would to a Round Goby.

And salmon in lake Ontario.....

I agree with your point.

[blasted_saber]

I absolutely do kill and eat pike and bass. Do you? One must also apply legal ramifications to these discussions.....

I don't want to stir the pot...but...let me list the fish that are invasive in one form or another in Ontario...that these fish do not receive such indiscriminant genocide...

1) Crappie in Lake Scugog

2) Northern Pike in Haliburton region

3) Smallmouth Bass in many Algonquin lakes

4) Brown Trout and Rainbow Trout in headwater streams

I can go on but I'll stop there...

People pull the invasive card when describing Round Goby and Common Carp, then forgets that many of the popular sportfish in Ontario is just as invasive in their own rights...yet people continues to plant, stock or tolerate their existence...

And then people treat the true native fish like Gar, Bowfin and Redhorse like garbage, killing them without any respect for native species (or life in general).

Do Ontario a favour. Next time you are in the Haliburton and catch a pike, or deep in the Algonquin and catch a bass, kill it like you would to a Round Goby.

[Pondo]

'Do Ontario a favour. Next time you are in the Haliburton and catch a pike, or deep in the Algonquin and catch a bass, kill it like you would to a Round Goby.'

There is one not so subtle difference: It is against the law to put that round goby back into the water alive.

[oaknut]

And salmon in lake Ontario.....

I agree with your point.

By that agreement you eould be saying all splake should be killed and tossed on the shore as well as all the unnatural stocked specks in the kakes around Ontario

[MuskieBait]

By that agreement you eould be saying all splake should be killed and tossed on the shore as well as all the unnatural stocked specks in the kakes around Ontario

As extreme as it sounds...yes.

People often say a lake is barren and stocked splake or brook trout cause no harm.

If the lake is truly barren, how does it support these fish then? Would the fish not die of starvation?

Truth of the matter is...the lake is barren of SPORTFISH...but not other native species such as frogs, minnow species, darter species, sucker and redhorse species, sometimes even Round Whitefish. Let's not forget the invertebrates...insects, zooplankton, worms, leeches..etc. So stocking these top end predator is in fact introducing unnecessary stress to the ecosystem of the lake. It is causing harm to provide us with a place to fish.

People often don't take a holistic approach to the argument...but only view the issue from the point of view that affects them. Saying a lake is barren and it should receive planting of sportfish is simply justification to creating "sport", rather than benefiting the natural environment.

As for the other comments on keeping bass or pike where they are invasive - I'm not saying you kill them like you would to gobies and waste sportfish...because it is illegal (although...we can argue whether these invasive sportfish in their unnatural and non-historical range should still receive the same protection and status). However, I see people releasing pike in Haliburton lakes, and people applaud having Smallmouth Bass in natural Brook Trout and Lake Trout lakes. Such is my argument that people have these biased views on biodiversity and their use of "invasive" species...throwing the term when it justify their desired, but abandoning that term when it goes against their wishes.

Don't get me started on Pacific Salmon, Rainbow Trout and Brown Trout in Lake Ontario. I do understand the salmon function as a biological control toward the Alewife population...but we know now that the Alewife population is on the decrease yet there are still cries to maintain or increase stocking. Rainbow Trout and Brown Trout really should have no places in Lake Ontario in my opinion. They have a more varied diet and more likely to prey on native Lake Ontario species, not to mention compete with native Brook Trout and prey on Brook Trout fry in the headwaters.

Pacific Salmon is a double edge sword. On one hand, they do prey heavily on Alewife. Controlling Alewife population will ultimately help toward the reestablishment of deepwater cisco species. It's sad though that a few species had already extincted or extirpated in the Great Lakes. However, Pacific Salmon, particular those in Lake Superior, had also been found to prey on cisco (not necessarily deepwater cisco as those species are usually too deep). So careful management is needed. At the end, the ministry must weight the pros and cons of Pacific Salmon in the lake and act in the best interested of the Great Lakes...not necessarily tailoring the decision to satisfy Ontario anglers.

Do I enjoy catching salmon, Rainbow Trout and Brown Trout, yes...certainly. I can't deny it. But at the same time, it doesn't mean it is the right thing to keep them around now that our understanding of native biodiversity and interactions between non-native predators and native prey occurs.