My retriever sometimes breaks early for a retrieve

[Fishinchris]

So my lab is a 4 year old male I have trained him to hunt with me waterfowl and upland. He has done very well for a dog trained by someone without any experience training. He is very good at flushing grouse and woodcock and always stays in the range I want him listens well and I can direct him and even stop him until I get close if he gets birdy in an area. With waterfowl he sits patiently watching for birds, has made between 50-60 retrieves this year understands hand signals I can send him any direction without much trouble. BUT he doesn't always wait until I tell him to go for a bird, if I tell him right befor I shoot to stay he will sometimes but not always and I would realy like to stop this and have him more steady. If anyone could give suggestions as to what I should do drills/something while hunting to work on this and have myself a steady dog I would greatly appreciate it. From late summer right through hunting season I work with him almost every day so I can work a drill or two into our normal drills.
Thanks for your help
Chris

[krakadawn]

Part of the problem you face is that his misbehaviour has been allowed for some time according to his age. Can this be corrected...certainly. If you have ecollar conditioned him then you have a tool to correct the behaviour. If you have not ecollared....consider it.
On the other hand have a friend shoot and you stop and correct the dog when he breaks. Set him up to give you that opportunity and recall immediately if he goes early, do not allow any reward. Do not be Mister nice guy...he has to know he is in deep trouble should HE decide to go.
Usually doing backyard drills with bumpers does little to correct, you need to replicate hunting conditions with guns and birds.

You are wise to try and correct this . I see too many dogs in motion before guns have stopped. This is definitely a major safety issue for the dog. Some people condone this as we see this happen routinely on some of our 'hunting' shows. How do you deal with a cripple with your dog already moving? We clearly know that dogs in motion compromise their safety and certainly their accuracy in marking fallen birds.

Get a friend to help you and keep a standard.......remember......sit means sit.

[Fishinchris]

Thanks for the reply Krakadawn. Yes he is ecollar conditioned so I will try to correct him using it. I often hunt solo or with one other person and for that reason haven't considered not shooting to have the remote ready and if I am shooting and he breaks early he is so far into the retrieve by the time I safety my gun and set it down/grab the remote I'm worried that this May be to late to correct him. What do you think should I bring him back at that time hold him for 30 seconds then send him? Next time I'm out I will bring along a few friends and plan on not doing much shooting to ensure I can immediately correct him when he breaks. As you stated not sure drills will do anything it's a different ball game all together when the gun and real birds are involved he never breaks when we are doing drills.

[krakadawn]

Good to hear you have him CC. Timing is critical in any correction. Ideally the second he goes in motion is when the correction and verbal command are given and I would return him to a complete sit. Ideally he would not be sent if you had a second dog there but I understand that may not be possible. What you are trying to do is not reward poor behaviour.
In training we usually look for at least 7 correct repetitions before I would start to consider the correction ingrained but always be prepared.
We often hunt with more than 1 dog in the hide. One of my partners has a dog that chooses to go on her own at times. Predawn he takes her for a short walk and reminds her of sitting, both verbal and whistle mixed in with a few collar nicks to remind her things have not changed. So you would here him say sit, then walk, then sit with a nick, then sit ....you get the picture. Returning to the blind she is much more in a training mode as opposed to 'wahoo' let me go!

[Fishinchris]

Thanks again Krakadawn great advise I will be working on this the next few times out I have just been letting it go because he dose everything else so good it didn't bother me much I was just happy to have a dog that got my birds but have realized lately as my group of hunting buddy's have all bought coffin blinds that it's dangerous because the guns are no longer 5-6' in the air but much closer to the ground although I have bought him a low profile doghouse type blind and I find he doesn't break as readily out of it as he dose if we are just sitting in the reeds or a stand up blind. I have very much enjoyed training him to where he is now and look forward to this challenge also as I'm sure if I put the time in we will be successfull and that's a great feeling. I have to give some credit to where my dog is now to you and a few others on here who are always giving great advise to others with their dogs as I always follow this forum and have found a lot of the advise given to be very useful to me and my dog.

[Longgun]

ideally the corrections should be done in training not hunting. The best thing is to get with a training group where you can focus on your dog and get in the corrections you need.
deb

[Fishinchris]

Hi longgun
i don't think there is any training group in my area could be wrong but I think I would have to do some traveling to find this kind of group. Could you suggest possible training that would help me I think the problem is that he won't break during training but only when we are in a hunting situation. I'm open to suggestions though
thanks Chris

[CamoIsMyColour]

Hi longgun
i don't think there is any training group in my area could be wrong but I think I would have to do some traveling to find this kind of group. Could you suggest possible training that would help me I think the problem is that he won't break during training but only when we are in a hunting situation. I'm open to suggestions though
thanks Chris

I am about 30-45 minutes away from you and train on a very regular basis....I am not a pro trainer but my dogs dont break as we have our standards set and as mentioned sit means sit....I run a half a dozen zinger wingers and throw dead fowl ducks and geese live pigeons bumpers, dokkens from mini mallards to large canadas....we train in hunting scenarios and are consistant with all our commands and the dogs compliance....if your like to com eout let me know your more than welcome to join us...I am not a pro but all my pups are either GHRC or their pups and they got it going on...let me know


camo

[welsh]

A common problem with steadiness is that the dog can perform well in training and then consistently break at the shot while actually hunting. This develops because (a) the dog can tell the difference and (b) the hunter (especially if hunting alone) can't correct or even monitor the dog while shooting. From my experience, you have to be prepared to deal with this not only by reinforcing in training but by giving up hunting opportunities to enforce the steadiness.

[TurkeyRookie]

The route that both Kraka and welsh have mentioned, are what worked for me on this same issue.

She never, ever, broke in training, but out in the field when the guns were blazing and birds were dropping, she's get so amped up, and out of the hide she'd go. She wouldn't fully break and head out for the retrieve, she get out in front and wait to be sent, but the fact is, she moved without a release.

1 hunt, was all it took, put the gun down, let others shoot, and I worked with the dog. She hasn't done it since.