How Much Velocity is Enough?

[ET1]

Simply question but not a single simple answer seems to exist.
A common answer is the most velocity possible for flattest trajectory which is a fair answer. In my youth I also adopted this philosophy but with what I now know today it no longer is my philosophy.

-With higher velocity there obviously is more recoil to consider for handling. Yes I have heard by some they can take the heavier recoil but handle it for repeatable accuracy is another story.
-I have yet to see best accuracy with highest velocity obtainable. Maybe one day.
-Some bullets work best in a given velocity range and really become explosively fragmenting when a certain higher velocity is employed. Of course this condition can be offset with using an all copper bullet which many don’t use because of the cost.


For someone who shoots over open land at longer ranges then achieving a higher load velocity is beneficial as compared to someone who hunts the woods where a shot normally doesn’t exceed 100yds. So common sense should be used to honestly evaluate what you need for velocity by looking at all the variables involved including your shooting capabilities.
For some that only see high numbers for velocity to basically brag about well that mind set will cost them in the end run.

So coming back to the title of this thread the closest answer I see is about personal choice. For best results I can only suggest “Choose Wisely”.


Ed

[terrym]

The reality is with black powder and Pyrodex once you go over 120grs you rarely get effecient burn of powders in most guns. I remember reading guys like Shokey who pretty well make a living off it only use 100grs for most hunting. We all switched to smokeless Savages but we hunt moose and are all experienced handloaders and understanding the realities and hazards of using smokeless. Most should tread there with caution.

[huntaway]

This a loaded question. lol

I would answer it this way.

You have enough velocity when your projectile will perform properly and as it is designed to do. All projectiles have a working range in velocity terms. Above or below which, it will not perform the way it was engineered to perform.

That is my shade of gray answer.

HA

[impact]

This table was taken from the Blackhorn 209 website. Ninety to 100 volumetric units of powder will give you plenty of velocity for white tail deer. I personally witnessed 6 good size bucks (2 myself) taken with these loads in the last 2 years and all were 1 shot - 1 kill. These were all under various distance and shot placement conditions.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-conte...loaderdata.pdf

Volumetric Units (volumetric powder measure) 80 100 120
Weight in Grains (weighed on a scale) 56 70 84
BULLET SABOT/BULLET DIA. VELOCITY FPS
245 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ .50/.45 1,740 1,970 2,149
250 gr. Barnes Expander MZ .50/.45 1,682 1,923 2,121
250 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ .50/.45 1,679 1,924 2,124
285 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire MZ .50/.45 1,690 1,914 2,097
290 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ .50/.45 1,634 1,865 2,066
300 gr. Barnes Expander MZ .50/.45 1,687 1,892 2,092
180 gr. Hornady HP/XTP .50/.44 1,803 2,046 2,227
200 gr. Hornady HP/XTP MMP Sabot .50/.44 1,686 1,946 2,170
240 gr. Hornady HP/XTP .50/.44 1,696 1,925 2,123
240 gr. Hornady XTP/MAG .50/.45 1,752 1,966 2,191
250 gr. Hornady SST/ML .50/.45 1,734 1,936 2,119
250 gr. Hornady SST/ML Low Drag Sabot .50/.45 1,738 1,943 2,145
300 gr. Hornady SST/ML .50/.45 1,620 1,850 2,050
300 gr. Hornady SST/ML Low Drag Sabot .50/.45 1,651 1,855 2,039
350 gr. Hornady FPB 0.503 1,509 1,701 1,909
250 gr. Nosler SHOTS JHP .50/.45 1,722 1,934 2,119
250 gr. Nosler Partition-HG .50/.45 1,740 1,939 2,150
260 gr. Nosler Partition-HG .50/.45 1,719 1,933 2,145
300 gr. Nosler SHOTS JHP .50/.45 1,608 1,813 2,013
300 gr. Nosler Partition-HG .50/.45 1,741 1,925 2,123
245 gr. Powerbelt Aerotip Copper 0.498 1,629 1,851 2,050
270 gr. Powerbelt Aerotip Platinum 0.498 1,549 1,764 1,945
295 gr. Powerbelt Aerotip Copper 0.498 1,490 1,693 1,917
444 gr. Powerbelt Flat Point Copper 0.498 1,428 1,597 NR
240 gr. Swift A-Frame .50/.44 1,742 1,949 2,155
300 gr. Swift A-Frame .50/.44 1,644 1,857 2,042
200 gr. T/C Shock Wave SP .50/.40 1,733 1,993 2,200
250 gr. T/C Shock Wave SP .50/.45 1,723 1,920 2,149
250 gr. T/C Shock Wave Super Glide .50/.45 1,655 1,905 2,098
300 gr. T/C Shock Wave SP .50/.45 1,632 1,862 2,070
300 gr. Harvester Sabertooth Belted HP .50/.50 1,586 1,791 2,016
300 gr. Harvester Scorpion PT Gold .50/.45 1,634 1,815 2,032
250 gr. Parker Jacketed Ballistic Extreme .50/.45 1,696 1,892 2,106
275 gr. Parker Jacketed Ballistic Extreme .50/.45 1,657 1,852 2,066
200 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,727 1,933 2,168
220 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,691 1,888 2,114
240 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,652 1,844 2,075
260 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,616 1,813 2,035
300 gr. THOR Hollow Point .50+ 1,630 1,826 2,032

[MikePal]

Can you have too much velocity…yes because there is always a cost when increasing your powder load;


More recoil..the ouch factor.

Increased ignition problems

More pressure…danger to barrel

More pressure, more potential for sabot failure

More velocity alters the bullet Ballistic coefficient… negatively alters the bullet flight characteristics.

At a point, diminishing returns require you achieve accuracy using a different variable in the formula other than ‘speed’ of the bullet.

[Gun Nut]

What are you attempting to achieve, and how long is your barrel? With black powder your velocity is going to depend on how much powder you can burn before you run out of barrel. You can test for powder that doesn't get burnt by spreading paper out in front of your muzzle. After firing, if you find powder particles that haven't been burnt, you are using too much powder for your barrel length. Reduce the powder charge until you are getting complete combustion of the powder charge. Whatever your velocity is at that point, that is your barrels maximum velocity, upping the powder charge will not improve things. From that point on you will need to increase the weight of your projectile to increase your killing energy. Before smokeless powder arrived on the scene, there was a reason for all those large caliber bullets with long firearm barrels. They wanted to develop more killing energy.

You don't stop hunting because you get old. You get old because you stop hunting.
- Gun Nut

[GoldenLakePete]

In his book "Black Powder Loading Manual" Author Sam Fadala tests many muzzleloaders with different loads of powder/type of projectiles. He rates each load and names one the "optimum". The "optimum is often, but not always, the most powerful load.

He defines "optimum" as: "the load that gave the best performance without infringing on the laws of diminishing returns."

Like you said, Mike.

[hollywood]

A couple of years back a friend shot a deer with his ML. When he walked up, there was a doe down... and also a fawn down. He did not see the fawn, which was beside the doe. The bullet when thru the doe and also thru the fawn. He was using a 250 grain SST sabot and 100 grains of White Hot powder. We had lots of extra doe tags in our group to cover off killing 2 deer. 100 grains of any of the synthetic powders is more than enough velocity and energy....in my opinion.

[fishhawk]

I get the best accuracy with 90 grains of powder out of my muzzle loader and get complete pass thru's on most deer I have shot. Couldn't imagine why someone would need more then 100 grains of powder.