B.C. Wildlife Federation says hunters furious

[MikePal]

You bring up a good narrative JBen..but in the end, guys who become outfitters do it primarily because the good money that flows in from having US clients. The business model is about making big dollars over providing a service for the local residents, because we (for the most part) won't pay what they are asking for a guided week.

A fella in MB has camp that he opens up for one week camp, for 7 guys from the US, and makes $10K profit + tips. Worth his while.

So if their business model is relying on government allotment of tags to sell to their clients, and that dries up, it's not in the interest of the Ont hunters to give up their tags to support them.

I'm also sure a better rate scale for residents at some of these places would bring in more clients.

I also don't buy that there is substantial 'spin off' from this type of tourism....the money stays primarily with the outfitter...allot pick them up at the aiport and drop them off after.

[werner.reiche]

Not to worry, they are taking most of the moose tags from the Ontario outfitters away in 2015.

Also, most of the lakes in this part NW Ontario will be void of American Fishermen in 2016 too!!

Why come here when they can fish their own lakes in the states.

I find your view of American sportsmen interesting Chris - and pretty shallow and self centred. You don't seem to want Americans up here at all unless an outfitter can make a buck off them - and in that case, then more is better...and you don't seem to like Ontarians hunting and fishing either if it has a negative impact on your outfitting. Just a little reminder that that the fish and game in Ontario do not exist soley for the benefit of outfitters.

[werner.reiche]

You bring up a good narrative JBen..but in the end, guys who become outfitters do it primarily because the good money that flows in from having US clients. The business model is about making big dollars over providing a service for the local residents, because we (for the most part) won't pay what they are asking for a guided week.

A fella in MB has camp that he opens up for one week camp, for 7 guys from the US, and makes $10K profit + tips. Worth his while.

So if their business model is relying on government allotment of tags to sell to their clients, and that dries up, it's not in the interest of the Ont hunters to give up their tags to support them.

I'm also sure a better rate scale for residents at some of these places would bring in more clients.

I also don't buy that there is substantial 'spin off' from this type of tourism....the money stays primarily with the outfitter...allot pick them up at the aiport and drop them off after.

Agree with you MP - if an outfitter is able to sell hunts only because he has access to tags (which happens a lot with moose hunts) or he has access to lakes that others are prohibited from using, the system is being abused. You can expect outfitters to be against the correction of these abuses. I've always wondered why the government cant see the abuse - why does a camp that could accommodate me for a week of walleye fishing for $500 need $5000 to accommodate me for a week of moose hunting when the only real difference in the two packages is a bull moose tag?

Re spinoff or trickle down spending. There are some lodge expenses - housekeeping staff, cooks, guides, maintenance - but as a total of the entire fee - pretty small. Very little "off-lodge" spending.

[JBen]

Mike as I said…"not a simple topic".
Take "bear hunting" as I know a handful of people with BMAs. Typically a week might cost $1200-$1400 depending on devil details.

The sounds really steep, until you factor in all the hours, sweat and work they do baiting stations, checking Game Cams at night, staying on top of the stations that are getting hit, etc, etc. Actual hard cost is probably fairly small ( A station, A stand, A game cam) so profit is "high", but then you have tracking, field dressing, skinning the animals...but work? And when you run these kinds of places, there is always something breaking down from boat motors, to cabin things, to water pipes/pumps, to insurance and more.

Me?
I doubt Id be willing to book a trip hunting say to Alberta in the spring, let alone a foreign country for $1,000-$2,000 if I didn't know Id at least have a tag come the fall.

/edit add
Just for clarification, not saying there aren't problems, or even some "abuses".
Not a simple topic with easy straightforward answers.

Werner anytime I go a lodge/outfitters I spend a fair bit outside. On gas for my vehicle, on food/booze, sometimes motels, restaurants, tackle, Tims and Mickey Ds, etc, etc.

The place I just returned from hunting deer for the last week.
Has had guys drive all the way from Maine for the same week. Always gets a good group of return NY hunters the first week of Rifle (for 40 years) and they drive to.

[chris lavoie]

JBen, you took the words right out of my mouth. BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!!

In 2016 residents, in the NW, will have all the lakes for themselves. They currently have all the spring bear hunt to themselves. Non residents allowed me to lower the rates for residents when they came to our camp for deer. Residents were half price here for deer hunting.

But I am more than happy with a fall bear hunt!!!

Because of no spring hunt here our local lumber yard shut its doors because Outfitters were not spending in the spring like before. Now locals have to travel 40 km's to get a 2x4. To get breakfast, again 40 km drive.

Because of no restaurant here, motels are empty because travelers want to stay where they can wake up and have a restaurant to eat at. It's a snowball effect.

[chris lavoie]

WR, I was being sarcastic!!

When a self employed business owner (lumber yard owner) lost his business, he had to go and take a job from another local. Again snowball effect.

When the resturants closed, cooks etc ended up going to the next town and took jobs from locals there. Werner, you need to start thinking of your fellow resident, even though they are in the next province over in NW ONTARIO!!!

[werner.reiche]

Not familiar with the 2016 regs changes. Is there something in the regs/2016 that keeps American fishermen out of NW Ontario? Or are you referring to the 2 walleye limit for non-residents?

[chris lavoie]

That is what I was referring to.

MN. fisher persons can keep 6 walleyes and in some lakes 8. Even when there was a high American dollar no buisiness gave the proper exchange. So high dollar will not have an impact.

When they come to Canada they have a hassle at the border, why put themselves through that.

[chris lavoie]

Outfitters were on those remote lakes decades before access was ever brought in. They deserve the adult tags given to them. After all moose hunting in those remote areas have always been great, still are. Those outfits are worth millions of dollars!! They deserve a voice.

Also the locals in NW get first crack at the tags, the way it should be.

[werner.reiche]

Outfitters were on those remote lakes decades before access was ever brought in. They deserve the adult tags given to them. After all moose hunting in those remote areas have always been great, still are. Those outfits are worth millions of dollars!! They deserve a voice.

Hard to believe you wrote that. That attitude is, in a nutshell, the cause of conflict between outfitters and resident hunters. Outfits worth millions "deserving" adult moose tags.