B.C. Wildlife Federation says hunters furious

[terrym]

I feel that our entire moose tag system needs to be revamped. A system where we accumulate preference points would be the fairest of all. That way you could charge non residents more for the points but they don't attain the needed quota any quicker than the resident. Some zones would obviously need more points due to desirability and those with most points would get first crack at the tags. Many US states use this system. I also feel that outfitters should not get preference over residents. In doing that you are saying one resident is entitled to more access to a crown resource. Also quite a few outfitters are Americans anyway. Should they be granted automatically the same rights as a resident because they have the money? A point system would slso accomodate the likely few Americans who own camps here and don't use outfitters.

[werner.reiche]

I feel that our entire moose tag system needs to be revamped. A system where we accumulate preference points would be the fairest of all. That way you could charge non residents more for the points but they don't attain the needed quota any quicker than the resident. Some zones would obviously need more points due to desirability and those with most points would get first crack at the tags. Many US states use this system. I also feel that outfitters should not get preference over residents. In doing that you are saying one resident is entitled to more access to a crown resource. Also quite a few outfitters are Americans anyway. Should they be granted automatically the same rights as a resident because they have the money? A point system would slso accomodate the likely few Americans who own camps here and don't use outfitters.

This system is the norm in the western US where demand for tags far outpaces the numbers available...and it would be a big improvement over what we have now. The one caveat with adopting it is that the states always do it on an individual basis and Ontario loves its party moose hunting. Party hunting greatly reduces the number of tags available as the likelihood of any tag being filled increased with the number of hunters trying to fill that tag.

[chris lavoie]

Chris,look at the up-side.
You will have less to rant about at the pumps at Bobby's

Yah, since they got rid of you gas jockeys, service has been quite a lot faster!! Thinking of being a greeter at Walmart are you, runs in your family doesn't it???

[Foxx]

And no, I don't have a problem with outfitters - I do have a problem with anyone who thinks they have more of a right to fish and game than others - and that includes a lot of individuals other than outfitters - and there are also many lodges and outfitters who can run a business without special perks from the province. I actually have been spending one week a year at a fishing lodge for the past 15 years or so and the guy that runs that does it without help from the province.

Other than posts in your threads where you think outfitters deserve special privileges (access, tags, etc), can you find any post of mine that is against outfitters?

I also go to 2 different northern Ontario outfitters for fishing trips each . The one I went to last June had 31 Americans and 4 Canadians, and the owner was also American. Most of these lodges are American owned. The MNR supplies them with lots of moose tags as well as close off access roads that are miles from their camps just to help them out. After the season is over these American owners pack their belongings and go back home to the states. It is time hunters in Ontario get a better break than the American outfitter. Chris, you might be a Canadian outfitter but you are in a minority . As far as Werner. Reiche is concerned, I feel his opinions on this forum are always well spoken

[trimmer21]

I also go to 2 different northern Ontario outfitters for fishing trips each . The one I went to last June had 31 Americans and 4 Canadians, and the owner was also American. Most of these lodges are American owned. The MNR supplies them with lots of moose tags as well as close off access roads that are miles from their camps just to help them out. After the season is over these American owners pack their belongings and go back home to the states. It is time hunters in Ontario get a better break than the American outfitter. Chris, you might be a Canadian outfitter but you are in a minority . As far as Werner. Reiche is concerned, I feel his opinions on this forum are always well spoken

I'm kind of wondering how Americans are even getting work permits from the Federal government. Wouldn't that be like taking jobs away from Canadians? Isn't the raison d'etre of CBSA and Immigration Canada to prevent that from happening? Maybe,it's time to start kicking over some garbage pails. Enquiring minds would like to know. Just sayin'......

[werner.reiche]

I'm kind of wondering how Americans are even getting work permits from the Federal government. Wouldn't that be like taking jobs away from Canadians? Isn't the raison d'etre of CBSA and Immigration Canada to prevent that from happening? Maybe,it's time to start kicking over some garbage pails. Enquiring minds would like to know. Just sayin'......

There's a difference between getting an employment visa and running a business in Canada. If the individual is an American running a guiding business up here, the feds and prov government view that as a good thing and help it happen (think of an American wanting to open a factory in southern Ontario - they are viewed similarly). However, if an American wants to come up here and get a job (i.e. employment) there is a whole different set of rules.

[chris lavoie]

An American who owns an Outfitter business (permit holder) is the only one able to work in Canada. His children are not allowed to help around the camp at all.

I actually agree with some of your points FOX. It's not right that they come here and reap the benefits of our resources to just go back state side and spend it.

But, now the American camp owners are starting to sell out to Canadian residents. Many previously american owned camps, are selling out at their first opportunity. They now find it hard to pay for 2 residences with the low dollar.

[trimmer21]

An American who owns an Outfitter business (permit holder) is the only one able to work in Canada. His children are not allowed to help around the camp at all.

I actually agree with some of your points FOX. It's not right that they come here and reap the benefits of our resources to just go back state side and spend it.

But, now the American camp owners are starting to sell out to Canadian residents. Many previously american owned camps, are selling out at their first opportunity. They now find it hard to pay for 2 residences with the low dollar.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean,Chris. American owners charge fees in US currency and pay staff and license fees in CAN bucks. With the Canadian dollar worth .85 US,how can they not make money? I would think that the US economy isn't all sweetness and light and most US hunters have trouble paying the grossly inflated fees the American AND Canadian outfitters are charging. Honestly,there aren't many people left on either side of the border that can cough up $4-6K to hunt up here for a week. Those charges are unjustifiably brutal and it appears to me that outfitters are simply pricing themselves completely out of the market. Werner may be right. They have no one to blame except themselves.

[chris lavoie]

Some destinations are out pricing themselves. That's why Ontario is so attractive to the hunters and fisher persons south of the border.

On other forums there is exactly the same debate going on.

[Bushmoose]

The only places that have a population problem is where access is everywhere. These remote areas that an outfitter has been for decades are doing fine for moose. Why, because of limited access.

Outfitters have been in business for decades for a reason, they know how to manage a population.

Stop blaming the outfitter and look at yourself and your very POOR attitude!!

So which is it? In one statement you claim the outfitter is doing well due to limited access? In the next, you say that it is because the outfitter knows how to manage a population? So? Limited access for hunters? Or outfitter management techniques? (Which is a complete crock of shyte!)


I think the one with the "POOR" attitude is you. From reading your posts, it seems obvious you have a great disdain toward the Ontario resident hunter that dares to travel to your region to hunt moose/deer? This forum is made up of hunters and fishers who don't own lodges and resorts. It's mostly people who allow you to be in business and have the privilege of earning a living using the resources that belong to everyone in Ontario. Perhaps you're on the wrong forum?