You guys think you have it tough

[Fox]

Actually they do add up (providing I heard the audio correctly) and yes the headline is kind of misleading in that case.

Regardless 27% over 4 years is stupid steep.
How many people have seen their income increase by 7%/year

It sounded like 27% this year and that will not be the end of it.

As for the $850 a year average now, it does not matter that yours may be $3000, these people are paying taxes on most likely a lower value property and have a tight budget. This would be no different than your at $3000 a year having an increase or 27%, it is all about what the people there can afford.

Lots of places in Ontario have very low property values. Members of my family were asked to move south due to health but with their farms being appraised at $40,000, yep, that is right, $40K for 250 acres, they would not be able to sell and have a down payment on a townhouse in many SW Ontario cities.

[JBen]

Agreed Fox.
And in many ways that's why I often to try.
A) highlight how things aren't always relative. Take your relatives. Forget the problems moving south and land values. What about their nest eggs/retirement funds.

B) try to illustrate how so much is "tied" in, or for other words ripple effects.

Lets assume your relatives heat their homes with wood, or use it to supplement. Could they handle SW On and 100% Hydro?

Maybe 500 in extra land taxes is the difference between fresh produce, or little Suzy taking dance vs chilling in the park with sk8ter boys, or glued to Netflix because it's only 10/month.

[trappermatt]

Actually they do add up (providing I heard the audio correctly) and yes the headline is kind of misleading in that case.

Regardless 27% over 4 years is stupid steep.
How many people have seen their income increase by 7%/year

Its 27% this year and 25% each year over the next 3

[trappermatt]

The tax payer in Howick currently pays 1304.95 per 100,000 of assessment , the 27% is the shortfall in the operational budget ,that is what needs to be raised from the taxpayers to pay the bills.

like I said in the previous post most of this increase is due to provincial reasons ,

1,654,400 was raised for taxes last year, thus 16,544 is 1%

loss of 179,600 in OMPF funding this year
Increase of 46,119 in policing costs this year

just these two items alone are responsible for over 13 % of the increase

it doesn't surprise me that many don't understand how the taxation system works , it seems many in the government would like to keep it this way so the taxpayer doesn't finally revolt after they realize how poorly the people they put in charge of managing their interests have preformed

[JBen]

Its 27% this year and 25% each year over the next 3

TM, listen to the audio you linked.

According to the audio and the reeve
He clearly says (I went back a 2nd time) 3% to 5% for the next 3-4 years or more for residents

The way he words it.
"Provincial shortfall and police funding that will mean 3-5% for the next 4 years or more".

Now that could mean
Provincial shortfall
and
Police formula that alone accounts for + 3-4% for 4 years...but....

Then the news women after they cut says
27% over the next few years

From written articles

As things stand now, Howick Township plans to increase property taxes by 27 per cent for 2015

Its always in the context. That could very well mean the Township needs to increase its land tax revenue by an aggregate of 27%. They could be 27% short this year. Doesn't mean they will levy it all at once.

So according to the audio.
+4% per land owner for the next 4 years is 16%
+11% last year clearly not enough.
there could very well be more years of 3-4%, or the rate could increase.
They can likely finance the difference each year.

With respect the comment of the average increase for people this year of $225. and according to the audio which said 3-4%.
$225 / .03 = 7,500 or if you prefer 7,500 x .03 =225
May not mean much of anything


I know Im getting old and whatnot but he does clearly say
3 to 5% for the next few years, or more.

[trappermatt]

TM, listen to the audio you linked.

According to the audio and the reeve
He clearly says (I went back a 2nd time) 3% to 5% for the next 3-4 years or more for residents

The way he words it.
"Provincial shortfall and police funding that will mean 3-5% for the next 4 years or more".

Now that could mean
Provincial shortfall
and
Police formula that alone accounts for + 3-4% for 4 years...but....

Then the news women after they cut says
27% over the next few years

From written articles


Its always in the context. That could very well mean the Township needs to increase its land tax revenue by an aggregate of 27%. They could be 27% short this year. Doesn't mean they will levy it all at once.

So according to the audio.
+4% per land owner for the next 4 years is 16%
+11% last year clearly not enough.
there could very well be more years of 3-4%, or the rate could increase.
They can likely finance the difference each year.

With respect the comment of the average increase for people this year of $225. and according to the audio which said 3-4%.
$225 / .03 = 7,500 or if you prefer 7,500 x .03 =225
May not mean much of anything


I know Im getting old and whatnot but he does clearly say
3 to 5% for the next few years, or more.

Ive been getting text messages for the last two days from friends that live there about this and if I could offer any advice to them , sadly like I told them there isn't much they can do , but what I did do was go directly to their budget documents and have a look at them , and like I've posted in the previous post there operating budget is up in the range of 20% not including the county portion of the levy as that is still unknown at this point . Yes they are going to levy the whole portion at once , they have already drained a good portion of reserves to mitigate the previous years increase .

the cuts are just a tip of the iceberg , they already know that they are looking at another 400,000 in OMPF cut in the next couple of years as well as the phase in of the new policing contract at another 117,000 and change .


The residents are looking at 73.89 per 100,000 in assessment change

[JBen]

I was wondering about reserves and their ability to finance.

No matter how you slice or dice it, it's a kick in the gonads for the people. Even if they do spread it out and run "deficits" and finance the difference until such time they are in the black/balanced. Well then you have a bunch of $ financed and need to pay the piper.

Just think about this.
+20% land tax not 27%
Hydro +40%
Produce +6%
ORPP (2%)
plate fees and others..let call that 1% or $500/year
carbon taxes..lets say it adds $500 (.10L and someone typically budgets 5g/year) so another 1% if you earn 50k, and these are just the obvious things "we've" griped about recently

Thats a whole lotta healthy eating, or dance classes, or music lessons or soccer/hockey for kids, or spending on things and growing the economy. Or reaching for Cr cards, and one thing it isn't for sure

Is paying down their own debt or saving for their own retirements.

Like seriously, and some wonder why I ask if they ever look around outside the golden child..sorry golden taranna. Or just who and what is gutting the middle class and our Q of L.

[B Wilson]

Maybe it's time to revisit farm property tax credit?

[JBen]

Well BW, to that consider this.
75mm allotted in 2015 for wine growers in NoTL.

Had to actually crunch it. So for someone who earns say 50,000.
$225 in additional land taxes
$400 in Hydro ( based on $1,000 hydro budget, mine in a modest bungalow is higher at 180/month)
$1000 to ORPP ( if your much beyond 35 or 40yrs of age it's not going to do much for you)
$250 to misc fees or this or that
$250 to a carbon tax. I drive about 28k/year and get about 10L/100k. So .10L in a carbon will ding about that
*****
- 2,125 out of every affected person's pocket this year in additional taxes
*****

Have to say it. An OPP constable in that area that earns 100k (3rd year constable is around 94k).
+8,500 (yeah, they'll be getting dinged to, but……)

So just right here, a clear as day example of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Or how one side of the teeter totter is going down and one (govt) up and has been since the 70s.

-farm credit and handing 75,000,000 over to NoTL wine growers
-a whole lotta cash for the working stiff and handing it over….

I find it helps when you actually put things in real terms/numbers and what it means for real people.

[trappermatt]

Maybe it's time to revisit farm property tax credit?

They may have to look at a few different things to keep afloat