Two more big black eyes. What a shame!

[seabast]

Which is 90 percent of ontario , and the laws under the FWCA letting dogs run at large is illegal as well , very rarely is a hunting dog caught by trapper , it's pet owners that think as soon as they leave the blacktop it's okay to let their dog off the leash to run , would these people walk down dundas ,spadina or younge streets without leashing their pet ?

Would you set a trap 20' from a well use trail by dog walker? The two trappers that I know would not so I'm pretty sure most of them. Maybe they could but it's probably not worth it.
Where I live, not in the city, dogs don't need to be on a leash but they need to be under control and no more than 30 yards away. Mine is never on a leash, even downtown. If it happen to be caught in crown land I wouldn't complain about it but if it happen on a Trans Canada trails it would be a different story.

[revrnd]

Other than OFSC snowmobile trails, the TCT is not in the Buckhorn area. I'm back and forth on Hwy 36 a few times a year & other than where the sled trails cross the highway, there are no "maintained" trailheads.

[Fenelon]

Killing "traps" are quite common on the ground in the north. I dont know the laws down there, but its a good idea for the public to obey the rules of keeping their pets on a leash. If they choose not too, and believe that they have the right to allow their pets to run wild and free, well this is the outcome. Again, I dont know if it was a legal set in that area, but there certainly isnt anything illegal about that in the North.

You are a trapper Dave are you not? How do you trap coyotes? Wolves? Lynx? Fox? I know how I do it.

We need not to point the finger at trappers here, but the general public who feel that they don't need to follow the rules while expecting us to go above and beyond in our line of work to avoid the possible scenario of a pet owner who decides to break the law and let their dogs run wild and into a trap. No trapper wants to kill a pet, thats not what Im saying. Alot of trappers have dogs.

Would a normal person let their child play on the 401 while you fished in a creek on the side of the road? Probably not. But they shouldn't blame the drivers if their child were to get hit. There is a danger on the roads towards people and children, just like there is danger in the fall/winter in the bush towards various pets.

Thats my opinion.

Boss:
I'm not sure where your home is, but I'm assuming it's north of me, and you're trapping crown land. A totally different situation if you're working remote areas, away off the beaten trail of other users who are recreating on that same piece of land you're using. Regardless of what "rights" us trappers think we have under the regulations, 'we're now living in a different world where we are under constant scrutiny. Any bad PR is devastating to us as a group. Right now a petition with more than 45,000 signatures has been sent to the Minister, asking for regulation changes. Baited conibear (body gripper) sets are causing the problems, as I, as a trapper with over 30 years of experience, must agree that there is no reason to put these on the ground when there is even a remote chance that you're going to get a non-target catch. Not sure why you'd want to anyways, as you're only ensuring that your catch will probably get mouse-chewed, predated, and abdominal belly-tainted from lying on the ground. It takes a few minutes more to make an elevated set, with your cubby off the ground and out of reach for people's dogs.
Re: coyotes and fox - no wolves in the area I trap. Regs don't allow land snaring in the majority of the area I trap, so it's either dirt holes or foot snares. Tough for me to do much, as I'd need dedicated time off work to humanely run a line. I do some snaring off bait piles, but I make sure it's completely away from any areas that see general public use.
I've never seen any provincial law that says you've got to keep your pet on a leash. The FWCA refers to dogs "at large", and I'm sure this is in reference to a free-running, unattended dog. It's also specific in relation to being applicable to presence of the dog during big game seasons. We (us trappers and me included), as a group, need to understand, and accept, the fact that there are lots of people entitled to recreate on that same piece of land we are working. I think the cottager who's up from the city on the weekend should be able to take their dog for a walk down the forestry access road, and not have to worry about their attended dog getting killed in a poorly-set trap that's 20yds off the trail. The guy with a small game licence should be able to run his beagle on hare on that same road, without having to worry about his hound find a baited 220 cubby on the ground. Diligence is up to the trapper in my opinion. How hard is it to get that set up onto a running pole? You need to make every set based on the assumption that someone's dog will find that set. If you simply do that, then there's no problems. IMO, we better start adopting this attitude, or our industry will be gone from southern and central Ontario, in under 10 years from now.

[400bigbear]

I've trapped in diferent areas of the province and yes way up north . My marten ,fisher,coon sets are ALWAYS up . I do alot of snaring too and since I don't set ram power snares even if a dog happened to be caught he is easily removed alive without harm . Dog just sits and whines . Wild canines fight so locks snub them tight tight tight . Over 4O yrs of trapping I have never killed a dog although I have caught the farmers pooch that I set for yote or wolf problems . Dog went home no worse for wear . Even me being accustomed to handling conibears I 'm not sure I could get an 80lb lab out in time by myself. Best to just not set at times .

[Waftrudnir]

Boss:
I'm not sure where your home is, but I'm assuming it's north of me, and you're trapping crown land. A totally different situation if you're working remote areas, away off the beaten trail of other users who are recreating on that same piece of land you're using. Regardless of what "rights" us trappers think we have under the regulations, 'we're now living in a different world where we are under constant scrutiny. Any bad PR is devastating to us as a group. Right now a petition with more than 45,000 signatures has been sent to the Minister, asking for regulation changes. Baited conibear (body gripper) sets are causing the problems, as I, as a trapper with over 30 years of experience, must agree that there is no reason to put these on the ground when there is even a remote chance that you're going to get a non-target catch. Not sure why you'd want to anyways, as you're only ensuring that your catch will probably get mouse-chewed, predated, and abdominal belly-tainted from lying on the ground. It takes a few minutes more to make an elevated set, with your cubby off the ground and out of reach for people's dogs.
Re: coyotes and fox - no wolves in the area I trap. Regs don't allow land snaring in the majority of the area I trap, so it's either dirt holes or foot snares. Tough for me to do much, as I'd need dedicated time off work to humanely run a line. I do some snaring off bait piles, but I make sure it's completely away from any areas that see general public use.
I've never seen any provincial law that says you've got to keep your pet on a leash. The FWCA refers to dogs "at large", and I'm sure this is in reference to a free-running, unattended dog. It's also specific in relation to being applicable to presence of the dog during big game seasons. We (us trappers and me included), as a group, need to understand, and accept, the fact that there are lots of people entitled to recreate on that same piece of land we are working. I think the cottager who's up from the city on the weekend should be able to take their dog for a walk down the forestry access road, and not have to worry about their attended dog getting killed in a poorly-set trap that's 20yds off the trail. The guy with a small game licence should be able to run his beagle on hare on that same road, without having to worry about his hound find a baited 220 cubby on the ground. Diligence is up to the trapper in my opinion. How hard is it to get that set up onto a running pole? You need to make every set based on the assumption that someone's dog will find that set. If you simply do that, then there's no problems. IMO, we better start adopting this attitude, or our industry will be gone from southern and central Ontario, in under 10 years from now.

Excellent post!

[fishermccann]

I agree, that is the best post on the subject so far, by far. Thanks fenlon, for a voice of reason.

[trappermatt]

My biggest problem with all these hypotheticals is I don't even know if a licensed trapper was the one that set these traps , the upward trend in fur prices we seen for a couple of years created lots of interest in trapping and I know of instructors that currently have 2 year waiting lists and I also know that traps are frequently set by unlicensed people , any trapper that goes through the course is taught about dog proofing killing trap sets , One of the biggest issues I have ever been involved with relating to this was a trap set illegally by an unlicensed person , the trap was first of all was too large to be set on land here in southern ontario and was set in a poor location , trappers were caused a lot of grief over this and it wasn't even a trapper who caught and killed this dog

[400bigbear]

True enough Matt .

[Fenelon]

I never did read what size of trap it was. I'm assuming a 220, set for coon or fisher. No marten, or assigned quota in that area. If the person was unlicenced, they'd have no way of selling that fisher pelt without a trap licence. Matt's got a good point. A very good chance it was any joe-blow. Sad part is that all the public will see is a trapper did the deed.

[fishy steve]

thats what i said earlier... with a place like cabelas selling traps to the public stuff like this is gonna become more common...