unforntuatly the only ones that lose in that situation are the kids... government dont care that the kids wont get any exrta curriculars... they will just save money again...Originally Posted by fratri
unforntuatly the only ones that lose in that situation are the kids... government dont care that the kids wont get any exrta curriculars... they will just save money again...
fishy steve
id rather be lost in the woods, than found in the city!
Don't forget no more field trips....
I always like how people quote the Fraser Institute as an authority. . Are you aware where their money comes from..... Well , 31% from corporations, , 57% ,business orientated charitable foundations ( tax free), and although hidden, also sponsored by the Koch brothers, % unknown . They are a right wing business think tank paid for by big business.... so you know who they are looking out for. I think their opinion is a little tainted. Why do none of you quote the Canadian Centre For Policy Alternatives? It is as far left, as the Fraser Institute is right.
Last edited by fishermccann; March 26th, 2015 at 12:42 AM.
Lol, Mosquito..There's a couple more I might add.
Fratri, please don't take this wrong, but most "professionals" are required to do things that don't adhere to the "job" description. Whether thats start 7am and finish at 6pm…work through lunches, put up with "stuff" (say like brats in the classroom and worse). Bring stuff home, so they are prepared for the meeting the next day…Answer emails on their phones at 8pm when they are watching TV with their kids, or 3am and something blows up.
Me?
I'm supposed to stay abreast of many things, be it world news, be it….Sometime's work on weekends (over time? What's that? I haven't received a penny for "OT" in 20 years)
I'm required by securities legislation in order to "serve you better" to do 12hours Continuing ED and 30hours Professional Development each cycle. Sometimes that means intensive studying for months, and 3hour exams and lots of time out of my life maybe becoming qualified to offer retirement planning advice, or talk Mutual Funds with you or….even though in my line of the industry I will never put that into application. It's not "for me", but for who? Ah yes, you so I can "better serve you".
More I might add…..
And it doesn't earn me OT, or raises or….
Unlike teachers who do the same, can do the same during their 2 month vacation and because they get that "piece of paper", automatically get a raise. Maybe instead if "teachers" were compensated for "performance"…or "those who go the extra mile"….Thats been tabled to….and the "reaction"?
That (Every "profession" has yellow grass) applies to all kinds of professions, teachers aren't special, sometimes it's hard not to get the sense they just think they are. And here I was thinking they loved our kids and should be happy to...
edit add
dont take that wrong
The grass isn't always "greener"…..or "yellower".
But the facts are professionals in all walks of life……..Why is it "Unions"….pulll the "work to rule" stuff out...
Last edited by JBen; March 26th, 2015 at 06:09 AM.
Yes G they are right wing, so some salt needs to be taken. It's not just them though is it (Drummond just to start)? And even if you apply some salt and allow for some exaggeration, some spinning. Everyone, in every party Prov or Fed knows Pensions need to be reformed to.
Yes, yes, I know. People on the other side never distort things either.
Proof is in the pudding G.
Whether thats historical trends since the 1960s that show without any question that the middle class is shrinking while gov't and the cost of gov't has grown. Maybe just me, but if one thing is going down and the other side up…...Related to that, years ago you took jobs in PS for security ( PS is largely immune to downturns/layoffs, can't really lay off teachers, cops, Drs Nurses, social workers, more just because things go in the can) great benefits ( Pensions etc)……….but less pay. Instead today you/they have your cake and get to eat it to.
The fact so many people in private can't save for retirement, don't have pensions, have too much debt…….
The fact the Sunhsine list has grown in leaps and bounds. Not necessarily the wage amounts..the number of people on it. Now do recall how Pensions work…So thats a double whammy.
The fact "people" (PS and Private) pay more in taxes, than they spend on their homes and food..
(see shrinking middle class,) than they did just 20 years ago when people spent more on themselves than they did "everyone else".
The fact there are so many, like yourself who are retiring early……while others are working well into their 60s..
So many more things by now you should know you can't 'refute".
When the body of evidence is so overwhelming……Even with some salt…..
I think I know where the "truth" is through all the smoke.
Last edited by JBen; March 26th, 2015 at 06:47 AM.
Just one "last thing" with respect to this particular "discussion" (PS vs Pri). It really has been "beaten to death" and really it's not hard to see how /why and through the smoke over 30years and the last 10.
"IF" everyone in the province earns X and for 20yrs they/we all get cost of inflation raises. Lets say 2% each year.
JQ (Johny Q private) will get 20 x2%
JP (Johny Q public)will get 20 x 2%….and the more he earns, the more the Pension pays, so its not the same is it? They aren't "keeping" pace are they?
Now what happens when the economy shrinks and there are all kinds of job losses in private…and all kinds of people taking less home, but keeping their jobs….or losing their jobs but accepting lower paying ones just so they can "get by".
Answers?
At this point who the heck knows…(Might have had a decent chance in 2011……and 2014…) But its not hard at all to just look at things and see the "truth". With crystal clarity? I doubt even Drummond/moodys, more saw that or many others who have chimed in on this or related topics.
For what its worth and I do have Teachers/EAs in my family. If their Union and the Union head can't see the problems, the disparities and the need for solutions. ANd they do go on strike or "work to rule".
Im pretty sure the back lash thats building is just going to get worse.
Last edited by JBen; March 26th, 2015 at 07:40 AM.
The Canadian Centre For Policy Alternatives are essentially idiots is the main reason, they only know one thing, MUST TAX MORE!!!! Let's look at their recent article on Ontario
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/si...%20Problem.pdf
Conclusion
The Ontario government has set out two priorities: a) to balance the budget
by 2017–18 and b) to invest in people and infrastructure. As the government
faces increasing pressure to make good on its promises, one option is left: to
raise revenue. This paper presents a suite of options available to the prov-
incial government to restore Ontario’s fiscal health while preserving—and
hopefully enhancing public services. There are certainly more options
that could be explored. The point is: both goals can be met, but the govern-ment must raise taxes to do so.
Clueless.... cutbacks, wage freezes, responsibility, austerity, priorities, better decision making.... unknown words to these clueless money grabbing economy/savings killers. They would run up the personal debt to pay for the gov't debt... all because they can't figure out basic economics and act responsibly!
I would love to see them add 30 minutes or an hour to the school day (my son is home at 2:30) and some better performance evaluations, maybe not every year but enough to keep them from being useless paper pushers. I know we had to get my daughter a tutor in a couple subject because she got no help from the teacher and according to her the teacher just handed out some paper, gave a quick description and you were on your own. As for talking to the teacher....useless...so with the tutor for two 30 minute session each week she ended up on the honour role again. From what my daughter told he the usual session was 5 or 10 minutes of explanation and the rest doing some sample problems to confirm the understanding so the teacher was either:
1) incompetent
2) doesn't care about the kids actually understanding
3) needs more time
or a combination of the above
Teachers increases are tied to the number of years they are there, those pay grades should be tied to inflation. If inflation is 1% then each grade should get a 1% increase... nothing more. No other profession is your annual increase so tightly tied to how many years you are there. A person at max can hardly complain at making the money they do with the benefits they do and even considering the after hours marking and preparing test having 2 months off (plus Christmas/march break/PA days...).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ions-1.1220772
Ontario teachers currently have a starting wage of between $41,766 and $44,292. The maximum wage in elementary schools is $92,813 in elementary schools and $94,942 in secondary schools, depending on years of service and education
Last edited by mosquito; March 26th, 2015 at 08:02 AM.
You guys that dislike teachers and their pay so much should use that energy/anger/passion you have and get into politics so you can change the system.
"Everything is easy when you know how"
"Meat is not grown in stores"
Or maybe its simply realizing things are screwed up and being willing/able to look at/discuss it.
You do know the province is in debt up to it's eyeballs right? And why? (lots of reasons, but one is mad hiring/spending in PS too)
That there are "problems" right?
That Pensions are being looked at hard by all govts including Ms Wynne. By all means go to Prov ONT. ca and see what Ms Wynne herself has to say on it. Im sure no-one foresaw how things might be/go 30 years ago.
That people today pay more in taxes, than they spend on housing/food/clothing and why?
Well when more than .55 on every dollar the province receives goes towards the "cost of govt"
When .10 on every dollar also goes to Interest. And why have they borrowed so much? Because more than 50% of the budget goes to "the cost of govt"
Leaving roughly .35 for the "beef"….
When the sunshine list
Honestly F, how many jobs/industries hand out raises simply because you've been there X years. Doesn't matter how good you are, how dedicated you are, or not….
You brought up the "yellow" grass….Everyone has that... Name me one or two professions that don't. Teachers aren't special in that respect..But sometimes…thats used as…."ammunition"
Its not about envy. It's about common sense.
And I just want to add. Until and unless the Unions are really willing to look at things realistically…
Maybe McGuinty/Wynne would have to be starting to play hardball just as Bob Rae did after he to caved to them so much.
Haven't we not learned from the past?
Last edited by JBen; March 26th, 2015 at 12:19 PM.
"Just food for thought" and hopefully "my" position on this will be a little clearer.
If the Unions hadn't balked so much ( and when I use that word I mean all plural, not any single) way back, if they had instead "listened" to the warnings…..If Ms Wynne/McG hadn't handed out sweet raises to some, but not others. Hired so many...
Since the infamous we are going to hold the line in 2010
8 of 10 have received raises.
If the one teachers Union hadn't refused the (what 2%?) back in what 2011…If Ms Wynne hadn't had closed door meetings and handed out 500mm to them, or X or Y..but then again people were fizzed and there was an election coming.
If they all had been willing to accept there were problems, had listened to the likes of Don Drummond, Moodys (downgraded in 2012 and we might get it again ) had they listened to more. If even more money hadn't been spent buying another election and buying a few Unions.
If even all PS Pensions had been reformed (just going from DBP to DCP) a little say back in 2012….saving how much? .I wonder how much $ the prov might have or if there would even be a deficit (lets somehow pretend that nightmarish debt doesn't exist and for now just worry about the deficits)
If we all would be getting taxed hard for infrastructure they ignored in favor of…..
If there might be money so EAs, the MNR and others at least wouldn't have to suffer and could maybe get raises
If there might be money for desperately needed Nurses, Drs other healthcare things
And maybe even a small cost of living raise for teachers
Last edited by JBen; March 26th, 2015 at 12:43 PM.
Posting Permissions
© 2017 OODMag.com - All Rights Reserved.
Community forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Reply With Quote
