Journey with the 10ML-II

[ET1]

From day-1 of owning a 10ML-II I have heard a truck load of negative comments about SML’ing and the 10ML-II. I have often wondered and tried to understand where these comments originate from.
When smokeless muzzle loading appeared along with it came a learning curve one had to invest time with to understand the workings behind it. Many who want just a muzzle loader they can dump BP powder and sabot/bullet combo in to fire away this muzzle loader is not for you.

Many compare the 10ML-II to other muzzle loaders as complicated, for what reason?
It is not complicated at all once you understand the basic operating principles behind it.
The 10ML-II is what it is a SML that can provide some amazing results. It has its so called good points and bad points like any other firearm. As some have mentioned it has quality characteristics that they enjoy having.
-The ability to reach further out there accurately.
-No immediate cleaning to prevent bore damage.
-No smoke to obscure vision of target.

I’ll be honest there were some real frustrating times producing some decent groups but the responsibility for this was my lack of knowledge and understanding about smokeless muzzle loading.
The first 3-factors that brought about improvement was;
-Use High Pressure sabots
-Allow proper cooling time
-Having proper load resistance

When I began to see better consistency and smaller groups I decided to go after improving this more. Okay that meant spending some more money for bedding and third pillar along with altering my crown with the addition of a chamfer. Boy did I get some real improvement and produced my best ever 3-shot group at 100yds. Okay I was developing a shooter that made me proud to own. There have been some additional mods since then attempting to improve consistency even more.

Over the years I have maintained a 1-shot, 1-kill record to date for deer. When I shoulder my 10ML-II there are no insecurities of whether that shot will be in the kill zone or not as long as I do my part. Now when I get some range time and if an inconsistency appears I first look at the possibility of what I’m doing wrong before checking anything else.

Regardless of what type and make of muzzle loader you have you now belong to a unique brotherhood of shooters/hunters. How well your muzzle loader performs will be up to you in knowing its requirements for performance and how well you hone your shooting skills.
The saying goes “1-man’s garbage/junk is another man’s treasure” because the other man knows (has the knowledge) where to look for that treasure. The only shortcut for finding the 10ML-II treasure is learning from others who have experience because that’s how I found my 10ML-II treasure. If I elected to remain on my own I would still be seeking that treasure (accuracy) today. Today I have taken my 10ML-II with mods as far as I safely can go IMO and now focus on powders and bullet combinations.

I may eventually even look at the feasibility of trying sabot-less that someone else has started experimenting with. This requires more equipment for proper bullet sizing and for now is just another avenue if I want to explore further.

http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-.500-300-gr-FTX/

The 10ML-II is definitely not boring.



Ed

[bellerivercrossbowhunter]

Very well said.

I am looking forward to tweaking mine later in the summer once I save up enough dough for a nice Leupold VX1 3x9x40 scope & some quality rings and bases.

I can use a savage 10ML II workshop to get me off on the right foot...


Jeff

[ET1]

Jeff

My recommendation is just start with the basics to print paper and see what you have to start to work with.

For this you need to really scrub the bore to remove the protective coating they apply.
As I learned the hard way it can play havoc with your groups when you start out.

Remove the Breech Plug and try your bullet sabot combo by pushing it through the bore. You should have 30-40lb load resistance. Simply it should take some good effort with 1-hand and arm motion.
While you’re at it exam the line impression left from the lands on the sabot petal. There should be no jagged edge lines.

If you are installing the scope make sure that the front scope mount doesn’t sit on the recoil lug. There has to be clearance between these two.
If the mounts come with 2-different length set of screws the shorter screws need to be used for the front mount. Make sure you use blue Loctite to help secure the mount screws.

The above mention I consider the absolute basic preparation for first range outing. Depending on your original results there is more to look at if you want tighter accuracy.
Also other 10ML-II owners may have additional comments to add from their experience.


Ed

[ET1]

Over the years the 10ML-II has given me unforgettable highs and lows. Sure I got the 1-1/2” groups out of the box as advertised with occasional flyers at any given moment.
Then one day I came across a Board that was designated to 10ML-II users at that time. Here I listened to others who were achieving 1” groups and less. At first I had a hard time believing that kind of accuracy was obtainable but too many users were getting group improvements when trying certain changes.

After some careful consideration I decided I was going to go the whole 9-yards in trying to obtain the level of accuracy others were talking about. Okay I began reading articles on bedding the 10ML-II. The following winter months I did my first bedding job and the addition of a third pillar for an additional hold down screw. Two corrections made with bedding was eliminating the fore-stock contacting the barrel and that the rear tang was contact free. Here to I also did some bedding to the tip of the recoil lug to always lock it in the same position. After that I had a chamfer added to the muzzle entrance.

Next Spring came the moment of truth when I got to the range. To keep this short I’m going to focus on the last part of the range session that even blew me away. This involved using a 30-minute cooling period between shots, compressing the load, keeping the front rest near the recoil lug and same rest location on the stock for every shot. Before I forget the trigger was adjusted to 3lbs with almost no creep.

This 4-shot group was started in a cleaned bore. I noticed the first shot was high and could see my second shot through the scope but not the following 2-shots. My first impression was that my last 2-shots were off paper that really gave me a depressing feeling. When I made my way to the target here is what I was greeted with.

Target 1A.jpg


Now before anyone jumps on this beautiful grouping I will admit I never exactly reproduced this group again. But countless times I have placed 2-shots together and always a third shot just outside the 2-touching. Okay I first thought I had this accuracy issue nailed down but manufacturers always have to make changes that threw a monkey wrench into one’s efforts.
The hard pointed nose of the 250SST was discontinued and the old 4759 in 1/2lb cans is now phased out, bummer.

The new 250SST (FTX) is nowhere near as accurate as the old 250SST but will produce a respectable group under an inch for me.
Okay I no longer own an off the shelf 10ML-II but paid my dues to see what it can really do with proper modifications.
I’m not suggesting you need to run out and make these changes but that you know the options for improving accuracy even more is there if you are willing to pay for it. For me the money was well spent with no regrets.


Ed

[smokeeter]

Nice group Ed. These Savages are finicky but once you get the stars aligned they do make nice shooters.

[jaycee]

I guess I was lucky with mine right from the start many years ago.
When I bought it , I gave the barrel a good cleaning followed with JB Bore Paste.
Mounted my LEUPOLD SCOPE an Ultimate Slam 2x7 x 33 also in stainless finish and was ready to start.

First loads consisted of 42 gr. IMR SR 4759 powder , 250 gr. Hornady SST-ML bullet with the supplied red sabot, ignited by a Win. 209 primer. Groups were just under 2 inches at 100 yards off the bench, not bad I figured .
I called Randy Wakeman and on his suggestion I went and changed to the magnum sabot [black] in colour and the groups dropped to 1.25 inches wow what a difference just by switching sabots . The black sabot being a much tighter fit.
When I increased the powder charge to 42.5 grains , my groups again tightened and are constantly clover leafing 3 shots , if I do my job, and have found no reason to tinker/experiment any farther.
My groups at 200 yards are still just under 3 inches , using the 200 yard hold point [dot] in my scope.
With this load I have with 8 shots killed 8 deer anywhere from 70 to 155 yards [ rangefinder].

This has been my journey with the Savage ML10-11 stainless , short , sweet, enjoyable and successful, and above all, reliable in wet weather.
However, I still enjoy shooting my .54 cal. Hawken style that I built from a Sharon Barrel Works Kit, many years ago .

[smokeeter]

My groups at 200 yards are still just under 30 inches ,

I wouldn't settle for groups that large , with a little work you should be MOA out to 300 yrds.

[ET1]

Smokeeter

I agree that the 10ML-II can be a bit finicky for what it likes to swallow and spit out.

Jaycee

Happy to hear your initial journey with the 10ML-II was short and sweet.
Surprisingly even the smallest adjustment can make a difference as you found out.
I’ve read where many quickly gave up getting their 10ML-II to shoot because they didn’t have the patience to learn or to build a good load.

As for wet weather all I use is a barrel/muzzle condom to be safe and it too has never failed to fire.



Ed

[MikePal]

Do any of you shooters have pics of your results for ranges for 400+ yds ?

I'm curious to see how the trajectory for these 250gr SST etc hold their groupings out beyond the 200 yds ranges.

[jaycee]

I wouldn't settle for groups that large , with a little work you should be MOA out to 300 yrds.

WOW ! that is a large group it should read 3 inches not 30 , have since corrected it, that's what happens if you do not read the post before you enter it .

There is no need for me to shoot out to 300 yards , I am lucky in most cases to see deer beyond 150 yards due to the bush where we hunt , if I was hunting out west , 300 yards would be a possibility but I have no need for it.
Also if I was to use a 200 yard target with a larger aiming square my groups would be perhaps better, as it is my 200 yard dot completely covers my aiming square making it more difficult to be "precise " at 200 yards.