Journey with the 10ML-II

[jaycee]

Do any of you shooters have pics of your results for ranges for 400+ yds ?

I'm curious to see how the trajectory for these 250gr SST etc hold their groupings out beyond the 200 yds ranges.

The trajectory would be similar to that of a 10 pin bowling ball thrown by hand, and the group size ?????

[jaycee]

Smokeeter

I agree that the 10ML-II can be a bit finicky for what it likes to swallow and spit out.

Jaycee

Happy to hear your initial journey with the 10ML-II was short and sweet.
Surprisingly even the smallest adjustment can make a difference as you found out.
I’ve read where many quickly gave up getting their 10ML-II to shoot because they didn’t have the patience to learn or to build a good load.

As for wet weather all I use is a barrel/muzzle condom to be safe and it too has never failed to fire.



Ed

I always use duct tape over the muzzle , rain or shine as with that large hole anything could drop into it , broken twig or whatever, also do that with all my rifles when hunting and wandering around as you never know when some spruce needles or something could drop into the barrel, lean a barrel up against a tree and some bark could drop in if your not careful.

[ET1]

Mike Pal

Don’t know of anyone ever shooting 400+ yds with a 50Cal SML.
I would love to try over 200yds if I had the opportunity. With my older eyes and having only 9X scope magnification 250yds would be my about my max. I would need 12x magnification to give 300yds a decent go.


A 250SST would still have around 1000ft/lbs of energy left at 250yds and 820ft/lbs at 300yds with a starting muzzle velocity of 2300fps. Still sufficient to down a deer.



Ed

[MikePal]

Don’t know of anyone ever shooting 400+ yds with a 50Cal SML.

I'm curious because one of the main advertised features of the SML is the purported ability for long range shooting but I rarely hear of anyone using it for that.

Pretty much any quality BP ML on the market (like the Ultimate ML) will provide a decent group at 200 so I was under the impression the smokeless powder provided you more pressure/velocity to push the bullet out farther on a flatter trajectory.

[ET1]

Mike Pal

Oh I can see where this is now headed.

This thread was focused on the 10ML-II SML and its qualities that I found.
There was no claiming that the 10ML-II is superior to any other Muzzle Loader, only what it offers for quality.

For a 50Cal ML the bullets available are considered of having a BC of a brick and that is their weakness. Yes velocity can help compensate in this area for further range.
As for utilizing that extra range capability that is up to the shooter and his abilities to make that choice. Some prefer extra velocity for just flatter shooting out to a given range, I do for a better PBR especially with low BC bullets. But even that is limited to bullet performance characteristics for expansion or fragmentation at given velocities.

I’m not going to get into a muzzle loader comparison debate but will share the qualities I found in the 10ML-II.



Ed

[Big Jack]

I'm curious because one of the main advertised features of the SML is the purported ability for long range shooting but I rarely hear of anyone using it for that.

Pretty much any quality BP ML on the market (like the Ultimate ML) will provide a decent group at 200 so I was under the impression the smokeless powder provided you more pressure/velocity to push the bullet out farther on a flatter trajectory.

Mike

Where are folks actually reporting great accuracy out of the new 700 Ultimate? I have heard the exact opposite. Specifically poor groups when really pushing the claimed heavy loads.

I hunt/shoot with more than 1 fellow who uses BP ML's and I haven't seen really great groups at 200 yards from them. It depends what you consider a decent group I guess. Always considered the BP guns to be a 150 max affair. I am probably wrong in that assumption!

[Big Jack]

Do any of you shooters have pics of your results for ranges for 400+ yds ?

I'm curious to see how the trajectory for these 250gr SST etc hold their groupings out beyond the 200 yds ranges.

If you want 400 yard go to a sabot less bore or land rider. The latter uses a cut from the barrel to cut rifling into the bullet prior to shooting and really is a true muzzle loading rifle.

Our club has a 200 and 300 yard range. Most guys can't hit an eight inch target with a rifle consistently or accurately at 200 let alone 300 especially with big bore guns. Sure there are fellows that can shoot really well but it is a lower percentage than what you might think. Given that muzzleloader owners are a small percentage of the shooting world how do you think that translates?

I'll be happy if I can get good groups at some point at 300 yards. I already shoot well and consistently at 200 with it and it has served me well.

Just my two cents.

[MikePal]

I’m not going to get into a muzzle loader comparison debate but will share the qualities I found in the 10ML-II.

Ed, it's pretty hard to expound on the virtues of a specific gun without comparing it's capabilities to an accepted 'baseline'. One of the biggest claims of the Savage is it's capabilities for long range, but I rarely hear of guys shooting it beyond 200 yds so I was curious to see if it performs any better in reality.

Sort of like the differences between buy a Lexus, a Camry and a Corrola...they all will get you to work and back..but what are the real attributes between them to warrant the extra cost.

Where are folks actually reporting great accuracy out of the new 700 Ultimate? I have heard the exact opposite. Specifically poor groups when really pushing the claimed heavy loads.

Yea I'm following some forums Jack, but have seen where guys are shooting the Ultimate ML with consistent groups at 300 yds, but the results are less than acceptable for the 'precision' shooters, but acceptable guys shooting 300 yd 'vital' shots for hunting.

Most guys can't hit an eight inch target with a rifle consistently or accurately at 200 let alone 300 especially with big bore guns. Sure there are fellows that can shoot really well but it is a lower percentage than what you might think.

I think this is more so ( or at least more noticeable) with the ML's in general, it's not the preferred choice of a gun for guys that are looking for a sniper rifle

I'm not criticizing the Savage ML10-II or the choice of guys who have bought them, but when your expounding on how great it is, you should be able to pony up some comparisons to prove out the claims of it's superiority.

Especially when there appears to be issues that required after market rebuilds to re-engineer the ignition components for an extra $130.

https://www.prbullet.com/s-kit.htm

[Big Jack]

What do you want me to tell you Mike?

Tell you what, come on down and let's set up a few targets at 200 and 300. Bring your best BP.

If your not convinced, I'll spring for lunch!

Have you shot one yet?

[MikePal]

Have you shot one yet?

No, that's why I'm asking Jack...I keep hearing from you guys how wonderful it is, but compared to what ??


I've shot with guys who have had a variety of in-lines and Percussion caps etc and I've seen the difference between a side lock, a bolt action and break open, between Goex, T7 and BH 209, between patch and ball, Conicals and Sabots etc...so I understand where their strengths and weaknesses lie. So when I hear how good a SML is I have to ask.. "How is it better" ?

The only area that I can see there may be a difference is in the powders and unless guys are shooting out past 300 yds, where the performance of the smokeless can be proven against Black Powder there isn't much else to hang it's hat on.

Comparing your $1,000K Savage to my $200 Traditions isn't going to confirm anything more than it's built with a finer quality of barrel so should prove better out past 100 yds, but I would be interested in seeing a performance comparison to a top end BP like a TC Pro Hunter or the new Ultimate ML. Would there be that much of a difference in the performance of a smokeless ML compared to a high end BP ML ?