Wow, it is about money

[JBen]

Agree M.

I don't know how to word this, despite trying many times. We are heading for big problems. Seems as though many don't want to do anything to try and (whatever the right word is). Or don't "get it". Don't get just how of touch with "reality" things are...

So again if we the parents/taxpayers think/feel that class size should be say 20-25.

I know your answer because we've agreed on this in past. Perhaps the problem isn't class size, or lack of money for the Education portfolio. Maybe, just maybe if paying the all in cost (salary, benefits, pensions) for them all wasn't so high. There'd be money.

To hire more teachers. More EAs.

Was funny, when talking with my PO friend about some of this stuff and with no prompting from me. In her world (Policing).
She wonders why they get raises based on years versus "performance"
She wonders why so many are dead wood, just doing their time until they can retire.
She wonders why the pensions and benefits are so expensive.
Why new hires start with 3 weeks vacation (most in the real world its 2)
Why not reduce cost in ways they can (freezes or other)
Why not reduce the dead wood just collecting, especially those with 15-20 years.
So they would have a lot of $ for more
And more people who would appreciate the privileges they have. aka the security, compensation etc,
Maybe some of the tens of thousands Uni grads with student loan debt up to their eyeballs who can't find work.......because the world has changed....

In the not too distant future were going to hit a wall and the current model is unsustainable.

[terrym]

If you think others have it better , get trained-schooled and go get that other job , nothing holding you back but yourself. The PS has jobs open every day, somewhere. The grass is always greener,........ nada, nada, nada.

Do you really think that in the real world just because you get trained or a degree there is a job waiting for you? There are thousands of Doctors Nurses Engineers, Teachers, IT specialists, Graphic Artists ETC who can't find employment. If the world hires, pays and fires based on the economy why is it that the PS is immune to this reality? Why do unions feel entitled to demand better compensation when we are in deficit and over burdened with debt?

[trimmer21]

Do you really think that in the real world just because you get trained or a degree there is a job waiting for you? There are thousands of Doctors Nurses Engineers, Teachers, IT specialists, Graphic Artists ETC who can't find employment. If the world hires, pays and fires based on the economy why is it that the PS is immune to this reality? Why do unions feel entitled to demand better compensation when we are in deficit and over burdened with debt?

...............and rampant over-taxation at every turn.

[terrym]

...............and rampant over-taxation at every turn.

These clowns, "Teachers" in some cases clearly didn't do very well in economics class. Overtaxation reduces economic output and eventually reduces revenues. Overtaxation chases industry to jurisdictions where it is more favorable to operate. GM doesn't move manufacturing facilities to Mexico because they like the weather down there. The Auto sector unions have killed that industry by squeezing wages that just don't reflect the value of work done. If they had understood that working on an assembly line isn't worth $90k/yr they might still have jobs at $65k. Industry has a choice to make decisions like relocating. Taxpayers have no choice in sending work out to a lowest bidder. We are trapped but at some point we will have no more credit available and reality for the PS will radical. The irony is that the left who demonize Harper for allowing the Chinese to invest into Oil sands infrastructure have no problem letting the debt rise for instant gratification but quite often that debt is owned/backed by the Chinese anyway.
If parents were allowed to "opt out" of taxation for education and be responsible for their own decisions and pay for private schools with that portion of the tax money the education industry would be dramatically restructured and the finished product ( quality of grads ) would rise enormously. I say it's time to privatize education completely, from Principals to custodians.

[Hunter John]

There should be no raises in the public sector until the government can balance the budget and the province can regain the majority of jobs lost over the last 10 years. You know ,, a functioning economy, cause we don't have one at the moment yet people cant see it. And before you flame me I work in the public sector , have a decent pension and make a decent wage with excellent benefits and I will survive a little belt tightening. How teachers whom make 20 - 30 THOUSAND a year more than me cant tighten up a bit is actually quite disgusting.

[fishermccann]

I would say get trained , schooled, degrees, in fields that you know will have jobs available, don't get a B.A. to sell real estate. Why would you spend 4, 5, 6, years at a university to train for a field that has no-low possibility of future employment? If you do, who's fault is that?

[JBen]

You know just on that topic Hunter John.

Look at South West Ontario and the jobs lost there.
The Provinces response? Crickets.
Hand the OPP 8.5% raises, shipping contracts to Chille, then you have others who want more
and more

So many people, from all walks of life are heading for walls. Meanwhile there are those who think...they are special, better and entitled.
/shrug

Its coming. Count on it.

[werner.reiche]

Do you really think that in the real world just because you get trained or a degree there is a job waiting for you? There are thousands of Doctors Nurses Engineers, Teachers, IT specialists, Graphic Artists ETC who can't find employment. If the world hires, pays and fires based on the economy why is it that the PS is immune to this reality? Why do unions feel entitled to demand better compensation when we are in deficit and over burdened with debt?

Nurses should be able to find work - maybe not permanent - but fulltime casual hours. The others, sadly, you are correct. It's a tough job market out there and getting into a permanent public sector job is like winning the lottery. My daughter finished her BEng in bio-med engineering and went back to school because the 'working level' for biomed engineers is a masters. With only her BEng, she was competing with grads from community colleges for lab-tech positions.

[Oddmott]

If you think others have it better , get trained-schooled and go get that other job , nothing holding you back but yourself. The PS has jobs open every day, somewhere. The grass is always greener,........ nada, nada, nada.

I didn't' hear him complaining about his job, his choices or his lot in life. He said he's made due with less than teachers expect, and is comfortable doing so.

You know, it's more than possible that someone can work a job/career/profession and be completely content with what it offers... and not whine and cry for more money and less work, every 18 months - 3 years, like our teachers have trained themselves to do.

Tax payers who have to constantly put up with the ETFO's bullshyte every other year have a right to point out that many others do more, work harder, and receive less compensation... and are able to live entirely comfortable and enjoyable lives... without holding other peoples' children ransom.

Nurses should be able to find work - maybe not permanent - but fulltime casual hours. The others, sadly, you are correct. It's a tough job market out there and getting into a permanent public sector job is like winning the lottery. My daughter finished her BEng in bio-med engineering and went back to school because the 'working level' for biomed engineers is a masters. With only her BEng, she was competing with grads from community colleges for lab-tech positions.

Have a younger cousin who found out the exact same thing. Recruiters (did your daughter attend Carleton by any chance?) did a really good job selling the program and the employment prospects... unfortunately the reality of the industry is very different indeed.

[fratri]

You know just on that topic Hunter John.

Look at South West Ontario and the jobs lost there.
The Provinces response? Crickets.
Hand the OPP 8.5% raises, shipping contracts to Chille, then you have others who want more
and more

So many people, from all walks of life are heading for walls. Meanwhile there are those who think...they are special, better and entitled.
/shrug

Its coming. Count on it.

Oh..... You are so right and I ain't talking about the teachers...