federal debate

[flowerjohn]

I don't want to vote Harper, the guy definitely has had his share of eff-ups and a lot of what he's done runs very counter-intuitive to old-time Canadian culture.

But any of the other 3 getting a majority is essentially the death knell of Canada. This country can't really bend much further economically without breaking. With ON and AB on the ropes... which provinces are going to pick up the slack and carry the country back to prosperity?

Answer... none.

Oddmott. Could you expound on Harper's fups ? Just looking for info. Thanks.

[Oddmott]

Oddmott. Could you expound on Harper's fups ? Just looking for info. Thanks.

The full list would take me all night, but that's the case with any Govt that serves more than one term.

- zero progress on Indian affairs after 2 terms, and several backwards steps
- Scrapping the Kelowna Accord
- stomping on Canadian research, muzzling scientists and granted researchers, contributing to the largest occurrence of Brain Drain Canada has ever suffered
- election spending fraud, which won the Cons the 2006 election ( I know I know, others paid the price for it, but I hold party leaders for things I feel they likely knew about)
- Running the largest deficit in Canadian history
- Grown the national debt to record levels
- Fired Linda Keen when she warned that Chalk River is an order of magnitude more at risk of failure/leaks than other AECL facilities and should be shut down.
- He reduced funding for childcare, cut nearly $1B in subsidies for women shelters & programs... But never cut the $1.4B in subsidies for big oil, as he promised he would in 2006
- omnibus bills we won't know the full extent of for another 12-20 yrs
- Spent enough $$$ on 'Harper Government' advertising to eliminate Canadian child poverty for 9-11 years
- changed the old age security system after stating he wouldn't touch it
- Secretive trade agreements with China which Canadian citizens have no idea what was gained/ceded, and now its looking like Obama is going to freeze Canada out of the TPP,
- Privatization of Canadian water, to corps owned by his big-biz pals, who are selling millions of liters of water for pennies
- His never ending crusade to eliminate our right to privacy. I've actually lost track of the number of proposals thrown out, som fishing for public reaction, others genuine, that would grant Govt various far reaching authority to delve into our privacy all in the name of battling terrorism.

I'm bored of typing on a cell. Ending it here.

[flowerjohn]

I get it man. Thank you for typing it all out. The cell phone is a lot. Cheers.

[Maximus44]

- stomping on Canadian research, muzzling scientists and granted researchers, contributing to the largest occurrence of Brain Drain Canada has ever suffered

I was listening to CBC radio when they interviewed the retired scientist that was complaining about the "muzzling".

He was actually complaining about the lengthy process it takes to approve studies. And not always getting approved.
The media translates that into "Harper muzzling scientists".

I work in health care research and when you submit a study for approval to the ethics board, it is a very long process where you might eventually get the go ahead or not.
If my studies don't get approved or take a long time, I can't blame Wynne or Harper as they have nothing to do with it.

[yellow dog]

Unfortunately the list would be much bigger if JT was in power or Adolph Mulcair. I wouldn't be surprised if someone picked your list apart on this forum.

[JBen]

Some things, you also need to weigh "A time and place for everything".

Absolutely true the Harper Cons, have run up debt and deficits. Debt, leveraging, more….these can be good things. The question you have to ask, is was the money well spent over all. I really don't want to drag Ontario into this but…

~In both examples, what do we have to show for it.
Ont: bloated Public Service and cost, no improvements in unemployment ( you know job creation), and not much else. In fact, we now have to sell Hydro 1 to help pay for infrastructure (good debt).
Can: Lots

Harpers cons are also the closest to centre conservative govt in Canadian History.

Lets not drag Ont into this, the above is simply meant as an illustration of how sometimes you need to weigh decisions based on the times, (worst economic and longest lasting economic downturn since 1929), ripple effects, and more.

OAS? IT's absolutely needed, it may be a bitter pill but…… We are an aging society, people are living a lot longer, population growth is trending down (people are having fewer babies and mortality rates are heading down), cost of living longer (medical and more) is going way up….and so on. Or would you prefer he muzzle even more scientist, let even more go to help pay the cost?

Good job Stephen

[Oddmott]

The media translates that into "Harper muzzling scientists".

Simply put. No.

The claims of muzzling are in regards to the 14 industries in which researchers and scientists were given specific marching orders, specifically in regards to absolutely, positively NEEDING to receive Big Bro's A-okay before engaging in any relations with media, as well as private investors/boosters.

I have no doubt that you heard an interview with a researcher whining about the normal process involved in acquiring funding and assets... but that is NOT what the media in general has ever referenced as the muzzling.

[Oddmott]

Unfortunately the list would be much bigger if JT was in power or Adolph Mulcair. I wouldn't be surprised if someone picked your list apart on this forum.

They could try... but they'd fail. All of that list is fact, and most of it is costing Canada dearly.

On a purely $ basis, the biggest items are the debt and deficit. Some, like JBen try to claim that Canada has "Lots" as a result of the increase in debt and deficit... the reality is that nobody could actually cobble together a list of the national assets or social programs that debt has bought us.

Our infrastructure is lagging (where it's not completely falling apart), our unemployment has grown by 500,000+ since Harper took office and 3 years post-economic collapse, so on and so forth.

These Cons sure like to claim fiscal responsibility, but they haven't come close to achieving it.

[JBen]

And yet M, compared to most everyone else.
Canada is viewed with envy.
Funny that.

Again not perfect, but I suppose you know better, know so much about economics, and further
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/cana...nt-debt-to-gdp

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/economy.aspx

http://globalnews.ca/news/2152159/re...-mulcair-says/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle22246187/
why do you think that might be?
and on
and on
and on

[Oddmott]

And yet M, compared to most everyone else.
Canada is viewed with envy.
Funny that.

Again not perfect, but I suppose you know better, know so much about economics, and further
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/cana...nt-debt-to-gdp

I don't claim to know more. I do follow many who do though... and everyone - even hardcore pro Cons - are unable to track where the money has gone or what it has gotten us.

We're talking about hundreds of billions in DEBT... with no noticeable improvement in infrastructure, no improvement or increase in social programming and no apparent asset acquisitions.

What did it get us?

You tend to follow this stuff JBen, if there was "Lots" as you say... it should be easy to point to at least 5 significant items the debt paid for.