what gun do you use??

[sharps4570]

Well, that is the problem. You are absolutelly right about powder/load. I would say primer make difference. But as for swabbing, cleaning, not cleaning options, I have found that running one/two dry patches makes significant difference. Dirty barrel gives bad groups even with Powerbelt, which are advertised as ditry barrel friendly. Also, cleaning with solvent takes time from the one hand. From the other hand, you have to dry barrel before shooting, otherwise powder gets slightly wet and that also affect results.

As for out of range cleaning, I like Hoppes as general purpose solvent, especially when clean my SKS after corrosive rounds shooting, but I've found that T/C #13 works better as bore cleaner. I just spray it inside bore and wait 15-20 min, then run brush one or two times, then two dry patches to make sure second goes clean and then oiled patch with remington oil.

This is where the BH209 offers an edge over the various other types of black powder propellants. Accuracy doesn't suffer even in instances where the barrel hasn't been swabbed at all during multiple shots. Moreover, use of oil based solvents for cleaning/maintenance purposes keep things simple in terms of using the same solvent for smokeless as well as BP firearms (where BH209 powder has been used).

The following target was shot a while back without a single swab between shots. Come to think of it, I need to test how my ML will perform with Federal BOR Lock sabots.....

[isartw]

FullSizeRender-3.jpg

100m(metric range), 100gr 777, Hornady SST 250gr, CVA Accura V2. Circled ones - one dry patch, the one outside group - dirty barrel.

[tracker]

My 1st ML since 2001 was the Remington 700, easy to load never had to swab between shots with pyro pellets and Remington 303 gr sabots, took many deer with it but hated clean up. This year I am using CVA optima V2 with 90 gr Blackhorn 209 and Remington 303 gr with Hornady green sabots. Good group with this combo.

[bcxextreme]

Great info guys.Thanks.There are a lot of good guns now to choose from.I need to make a trip to one of the big box stores and shoulder a few and see which ones fit me the best.Then its all down to price/vs features.I am having great success with my cva wolf and I can,t see how any of the guns mentioned here would not be a step up. In the mean time keep the good info coming.

[isartw]

CVA Wolf is a great choice. The only option I would ever consider is smokeless muzzleloader such as Savage 10 ML.

[bcxextreme]

CVA Wolf is a great choice. The only option I would ever consider is smokeless muzzle loader such as Savage 10 ML.

The cva wolf has definitely served me well. I do have serious concerns though about the lack of real safety.I also would like something with a good corrosion resistance. I will likely keep the wolf as a backup to use if so I can invite someone to join me for ML week. I really dont think i,ll go down the smokeless path. To me the black powder theatrics is all part of the fun. At this point taking everything into consideration i,m probably looking at something like a cva optima, possibly an accura or one of the less expensive TC,s.That has not been decided for sure yet.It looks like I will be heading down to BP this weekend to shoulder some and see them up close. If I see something that strikes me as a "must have" Then I will just have to come up with the extra $...he he.I wont be buying one yet.I can get just as good or better price locally but it would likely have to be ordered.

[bcxextreme]

On further inspection i see the other cva models dont appear to have an actual safety. It seems odd that they would not use something more than a spring holding the hammer back from the firing pin. Obviously safeties are not an excuse for carelessness. I think i would just feel better having one.

[gicanul]

Knight LRH 50cal 2 pellets IMR Hot whites,240 sabot zeroed at 150m

[Big Jack]

Savage 10ml-II which shoots sub MOA out to 200 yards.

Rem 700 PR Bullet smokeless conversion. Wasn't happy with this one at first but once I found the right load it is absolutely incredible. I will be posting a write up on it with pictures when hunting is all done.

[bcxextreme]

Knight LRH 50cal 2 pellets IMR Hot whites,240 sabot zeroed at 150m

Another knight to the list.They look pretty innovative.Have you been happy with it?