shooting fawns

[Gilroy]

Well last year I waited in the cold for two full weeks to get lucky and harvest a decent buck.This year I set out with the same plan and passed on basically large fawns three times.After sitting most of the second week in the rain and cold coming home I decided the fawn standing in front of me was coming home with me.I could have passed and gambled for a buck that was sniffing around and maybe even have got him the last day,but the signs were not looking good very few shots heard and the weather turning,I decided to get some meat.

For me its easily justified, the effort I put into picking and hauling hundreds of pounds of apples,the food plots I hand dig,the work on trails and tree stands and all the other stuff most of us do to ensure a successful hunt.

It was also easily justified when I was in the Hamlet the night before and had five beautiful deer walk in front of my van at the local beach and then saw another on a lawn.I believe the deer are around in good shape and in good numbers but mostly in the town where they are better fed and away from the local wolves.

[finsfurfeathers]

We're all hearing abut the deer numbers are down, and I'm not posting this thread to judge people but why are hunters harvesting fawns? As hunters do we need to do more on conservation let these fawns get older.

Hey Seabast,
From the site everyone here saying that they're not seeing any deer and talking to other hunters. I was at Sail the other day bunch of guys braging about shooting fawns, didn't understand why that is. Not much meat on a fawn. I dont see the point shooting a fawn. I hunt WMU 47 this year saw a total of 17 does and fawns within 2 days I was there. I had them within 30-50 yards from me. I decided not to take the shot. Rather hunt 3+ years old. Just my opinion.

So you see 17 deer in 2 days and you claim numbers are down? So its not so much about conservation as your desire to shoot a big rack. Now that's a bit different don't you think?

[werner.reiche]

In areas where there is significant winter losses, a fawn is the least valuable deer in the herd (in fall) in that they are most vulnerable to winter losses. Also, slightly more than half the fawns are bucks - so taking one is no different from taking a spike or mature buck (except there's a lot less meat and antlers).

Shooting does, especially mature ones is very, very bad for the deer herd, especially after harsh winters when you are hoping the herd will bounce back. Mature does have more fawns and are more successful at raising them than young does.

Shooting bucks - fawns, spikes or mature - has an insignificant effect on the deer herd unless you get to the point that there are not enough bucks around to do the breeding - IIRC, that's when the b:d ration hits 10 or 12 to 1. Not likely in Ontario.

[werner.reiche]

Hunter impact on the deer is marginal. I think (in round numbers) the MNR estimates 400,000 deer in Ontario and they estimate that hunters harvest about 100,000 in the annual cull....so in rough terms hunters affect maybe 25% of the population.

Also, consider due to the tag allotment system, the largest percentage of that 25% is antlered bucks, so even fewer does/fawns are taken.

Whether you take a fawn/doe/young buck has relatively no implications as far as Deer Management considerations.

I'd disagree with that. Ontario deer mortality is primarily from hunting. Your stat that it affects only 25% of the herd is misleading. The stat you want too look at is what percentage of mortality is caused by hunters - and that is significant.

Much of southern Ontario (where winterkill is not significant) is well aware that what hunters take (does in particular) has had an effect on the deer herd there over the last 10 years.

[werner.reiche]

Fawns taste good
But I guess it depends on the area and what you are seeing. It could be as simple as having 15-20 on the next farm or just over the other hill and not knowing or seeing them.
If there truly were no deer in a WMU then a antlerless tag wouldn't be issued. I like to think the MNR knows what they are doing and we just don't or can't see the bigger picture.

That's a good summary of the situation, I think.

[seabast]

Hey Seabast,
From the site everyone here saying that they're not seeing any deer and talking to other hunters. I was at Sail the other day bunch of guys braging about shooting fawns, didn't understand why that is. Not much meat on a fawn. I dont see the point shooting a fawn. I hunt WMU 47 this year saw a total of 17 does and fawns within 2 days I was there. I had them within 30-50 yards from me. I decided not to take the shot. Rather hunt 3+ years old. Just my opinion.

I'm confused....
There is no deer but you see 17 does and fawns....
You care about conservation but you would raiser shot a 3 years old + doe or buck instead of an yearling....
With a fawn you end up with roughly 30lb of prime meat, it's not bad at all for 50$.

[MikePal]

I'd disagree with that. Ontario deer mortality is primarily from hunting. Your stat that it affects only 25% of the herd is misleading. The stat you want too look at is what percentage of mortality is caused by hunters - and that is significant.

Two differnent topics...my stat is just pure math from the Harvest; simply 400,000 - 1000,000 = 25%

The numbers your taking about is deer mortality, and yes hunters kill closer to 50% of the deer that died

study from Wisconsin; "The rates of mortality were human hunting 43%, starvation 9%, coyote 7%, wolf 6% and roadkill 6%".

(note: they don't mention disease...must be the remainder)

Point is that taking a fawn in an area has little impact on Deer Management....so to say you hurt the herd by killing a fawn is not true.

[trimmer21]

Point is that taking a fawn in an area has little impact on Deer Management....so to say you hurt the herd by killing a fawn is not true.

This is the same argument we have with Moose calf harvest,isn't it? OMNRF has found it necessary to curtail calf harvest in all of Ontario north of the French River to a two-week period. Now,I'm sure not a biologist or anything,but,to my little pea brain,it seems absolutely logical that when adding hunting pressure to predation by Bears,Wolves and Coyotes,something has to give,sooner or later. All we're doing is killing off next years hunting,then,we whine and bi**h that the Deer and Moose herd population has tanked. Our pidgeons are coming home to roost.

[arclight]

Everybody's ethics are different. If you have an antlerless license you are good to go and shoot any deer you see in your WMU. I have no issues with people hunting fawns.

[seabast]

This is the same argument we have with Moose calf harvest,isn't it? OMNRF has found it necessary to curtail calf harvest in all of Ontario north of the French River to a two-week period. Now,I'm sure not a biologist or anything,but,to my little pea brain,it seems absolutely logical that when adding hunting pressure to predation by Bears,Wolves and Coyotes,something has to give,sooner or later. All we're doing is killing off next years hunting,then,we whine and bi**h that the Deer and Moose herd population has tanked. Our pidgeons are coming home to roost.

But also the point is, you better shot a fawn than a 2 or 3 years old doe (if you care about conservation).